EP 87. Identity and Resilience: Jaiyah Saelua's Path as a Fa'afafine Athlete

In this episode, we chat with Jaiyah Saelua, the American Samoa national footballer and star of "Next Goal Wins," who made history as the first transgender person to play in a FIFA World Cup qualifier. Jaiyah opens up about her journey as a fa'afafine and transgender individual, discussing the challenges she faced growing up in American Samoa, like bullying and figuring out her identity. She explains the differences between fa'afafine identity and Western ideas of transgenderism, stressing the need for inclusivity and recognition of indigenous identities. Jaiyah also talks about the important roles fa'afafine and fa'atama play in Samoan society, such as being educators and caretakers. Sharing her experiences of caregiving for elderly relatives and promoting "Next Goal Wins," she emphasizes the importance of representation and understanding. The episode wraps up with a call for listeners to watch the film and documentary, encouraging greater acceptance and inclusivity.

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Transcript

Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Lavalava, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the vibrant people and cultures of the Pacific islands. I'm your host, Michael Tan, and joining me today is my co host, Spencer Harman. Before we get started, a quick reminder to our listeners to follow, subscribe, and leave a review if you enjoy the show.

Now let's jump straight into it. Today, we will be talking with Jaiyah Saelua, the American Samoa Association  national footballer, star of next goal wins. And she was also recognized by FIFA as a first transgender in the world to play in the FIFA World Cup qualifier. Ta'alofa Jaiyah. Ta'alofa  lava. Thank you for having me.

Finally, we get to have this conversation after so many months of planning. Uh,  yes, it's, it's been a while. So Jaiyah, I want to, I want to go straight into your personal life. Can you tell us? about where you were born, raised, and your upbringing in American Samoa. Yeah I was born and raised here on Tutuila Island in American Samoa in the villages of Leone, the island of Aunu'u, and, uh, a lot of my childhood was spent on the island.

Also in, uh, Fatumafuti, where as you know, Michael, um, we, we went to school together at the South Pacific International Christian Center and I think it was maybe around the time I was transitioning from elementary into high school I started to realize that I not only felt different, but wanted different things, um,  was attracted to, you the same gender as the one that I was assigned at birth.

And, although I had faafafine aunties and, and family members,  I was never really exposed to the actual identity until I got to high school. As Michael knows the South Pacific International Accusation Center School is, um, a conservative school and, um, they're very set in their ways. And my aunt, who is my dad's sister actually pulled me aside one time when I was a kid to, talk to me about the Fafafine identity.

And,  of course Where she was coming from was from a religious perspective and, and at a young age I was quickly introduced to the ideas that being a fa'afafine is wrong. And so I went into hiding, as many fa'afafine and LGBT people do.  LGBTQI plus people tend to do when they are exposed to the idea that they're, uh, being LGBTQI plus or SOGI esque, as I tend to use a lot now that I understand more that LGBTQI plus is exclusive of, uh, Indigenous identities.

But we'll touch on that a little bit more later on. Aside from that my family was always supportive of who I was. It was difficult for me to, to realize how proud my parents were of me. Because  I was exposed to that, um, narrative from my aunt at a very young age. And so, because I was in hiding a lot of my, my high school eight, uh, years my parents sort of had an idea, but it, I took it upon myself to, to make sure that it was hidden from them. 

Out of fear that you know, I, I had friends who were beat because of their Fafa Fina identity or being feminine. But I also had a lot of friends that were out and proud and had supportive families. So for the most part, I was, I grew up surrounded by love and support. And, and, um, by the time I left American Samoa to, um, Further my education at the University of Hawaii at Hilo.

I realized that my independence at the University of Hawaii was going to introduce me to a new way of life, a new nature where I could live completely as a woman. And that's what I did. And so began my transition, my official medical transition into the trans identity. And Hawaii was also the place where I was first introduced to actual prejudice outside of, of home.

And  it, it didn't feel, it wasn't a good feeling. And so I started to keep to myself a lot while I was at the University of Hawaii at Hilo. So much so that I dropped out of UH and moved back home to where I could feel comfortable in my own skin. So a lot of. People, a lot of Fafafine, in fact, some who grew up in American Samoa have their struggles, but fortunately for me, I didn't have a lot of the struggles that they faced at a young age, so, yeah, being a Fafafine, to me, was more of a coming of age rather than um, a coming out phase, and I figured the best that I could do is be true to myself, be true to my passions, and, um,  And my identity as a FIFA fan and eventually it led me to becoming recognized by FIFA as the first out trans person to play in the FIFA sanctioned tournament.

Although I have been playing for the national team prior to 2011 it was only at, um, post transition that FIFA recognize me as someone different. But I, I must say that I'm not the first Fafafine to play in a FIFA section tournament. There have been two Fafafine who would identify as gay men who played for the national team.

And so a platform was created in 2011 where I was pushed into this responsibility to be the voice of LGBTQI plus and SOGIESC athletes, not only in the region, but But the world, and I quickly realized that there was not only a need for it, but it was a lot of work, and I had to, you know you know, learn how to speak the right words and make sure that I was intersectional in the advocacy that I was forced to, um, to participate in.

And  it was overwhelming at times, but I come from a strong family and a strong culture. And so I have them to credit for you know, having the strength that I, that, you know,  Pretty much pushed me through this, this  journey, this surreal journey that led to a feature film from Hollywood being created about not only my team, but highlighting myself and the Papa Fina . playing soccer at Fatima Kuti, um, a part of the football federation of American Samoa, what was then the American Samoa football soccer association in their efforts to not only solidify their members as, uh, as FIFA or their member. 

, and to try and develop the youth after the 31 0 loss against Australia, which prompted Australia to move to the Asia Confederation. They introduced a private school league  where we, the, um, South Pacific International Christian Center was asked to participate in.  And the first year that we took the team, we won the championship title.

And it was a co ed team, so that was fun. And that, that made it more appealing to me as a, a young Papa Fina in hiding. And I was named the island wide most valuable player. So it was  early on. It was a sport that I really enjoyed, not only because it was the only competitive sport that was offered to us at a young age, but because I was good.

And only three years later, I was drafted to the national team, the senior national team, not the under 19, under 21, but the senior national team. When I was a freshman at  Leone high school. And so began the journey of being a national artist. Player for the American Samoan Men's National Team. Yeah, and you're right about the whole high school thing, because I never noticed you and your younger sister,  uh,  displaying any, I would say femininity, I think.

Yeah, yeah. But mostly because  in SPIC, if something like that showed up, we would get corrected, right? Yeah. Yeah. But,  I always looked up to you mainly because I saw how quiet you were and how strong maybe because you, you weren't really mingling with us underclassmen, but that's how I saw you.

And, and, yeah, you were,  you were one of the players that I avoided  coming across in high school in soccer because of how strong your leg was.  So, yeah, you're right how these things we were sheltered when we were in elementary, but we suddenly saw when we were in high school because my cousin is Christian Salia.

Yeah.  And I grew up with my cousin  and I don't know if my, my mind was pure in elementary, but when we entered high school, man, you will see all these prejudice and all these, uh, teasing towards the Fafafine. Yeah. So I, I can't imagine how you guys felt. It wasn't the same level as how I was bullied because of my race and how quiet and meek I seem, but it.

I know it wasn't the same level  of how What you, the Fafafine community had experienced in American Samoa because I love my cousin, my cousin Christian. Yeah, uh, we grew up together and I saw a lot of things that went around. In regards to Fa'afafini, so mad props to you for coming out and doing what you love and what makes you happy, because ultimately for me, it's, it's just, it's all about pursuit of happiness. 

I don't, I don't want to infringe on the happiness of other people, because if your happiness doesn't affect my happiness, then we're all good. Right. Yeah. So what, what are some, uh, challenges that you face in American Samoa? It could be from high school to your adult life. Yeah. Challenges as a Fafafine. Aside from  Samoan humor is crude altogether.

And aside from the name calling and you know, the bullying that we faced in high school It wasn't a lot, it was mainly words, uh, and, and a lot of times it was that kind of bullying. Not to the, not, nobody went as far as to actually physically harm me, but, uh, words hurt as well. And aside from that, I think the biggest struggle or challenge that I faced coming of age as a Papakini, as a young Papakini was, trying to navigate my identity under the fa'afafine spectrum because as we understand there are all sorts of fa'afafine and the word fa'afafine translates into in the manner of a woman.

  And the opposite of that would be a hatama who is someone who was assigned the female gender at birth and portrays characteristics that are more commonly associated with, uh, the male gender. And so being exposed to the Western terms that are gay, bisexual, transgender you know, leaving high school and into the University of Hawaii at Hilo,  my biggest challenge was trying to realize for myself who I was under the Fafafine spectrum and whether I was going to continue to present as a male or and  be a gay man, or if I felt in my, heart that I was actually a trans woman who was going to transition and live my life completely as a, as presenting as a woman.

And that was the biggest challenge for me. And, I slowly started to realize that choosing to be a trans woman introduced me to a lot of new challenges. And I was very underprepared for the challenges that being a trans woman brought me.  But, again, I'm a strong person and  I often don't let the opinions of people I don't know get to me.

affect the way I feel or the way I act or the decisions that I make for myself in life. And, and so it's different when it comes when prejudice comes from people you know, because then there's a connection between you and that person. Whereas from strangers, I could care less.  And so my transition into being a trans woman was  pretty smooth.

And  yeah, I think that was That is the biggest challenge that I had to face. Um, just to touch on the Fafafine identity, uh, we, when I was at a, a, what is called the ILGA conference, uh, the Australian ILGA conference which is the International Lesbian, Lesbian and Gay Association  the acronym SOGIESC or SOGI was introduced where sexual orientation, gender identity, or expressions.

And at this workshop, they not only introduced, but  they wanted to make it known, or under,  they wanted to make it known that a lot of Indigenous identities are excluded in, under the LGBTQI spectrum. For instance, the Fafafine identity, it's one word for us and it's a spectrum for us, but we all of a sudden are divided when we are, when we.

are put under the rainbow spectrum, the LGBTQI plus spectrum. So gay men and trans women become separated under that spectrum. Whereas in the Samoan culture and in a lot of indigenous cultures around the world, we are one and the same. And, and so I try to use SOGI a lot more now just to make it more commonly used and spaces that.

Talk about indigenous identities like the Bapa Fina and Waxahama  identities only because it's inclusive of identities that don't fall under the rainbow spectrum.

Thank you for sharing that. And I just wanted to say, uh, you know first of all, you mentioned earlier that you have a tendency to go on, which I'm fully on board with encouraging you to do that because, you know, I imagine that after the movie came out, you know, I'm sure you've received a bit more attention you know, or a new wave of people that are discovering you for the first time.

And, you know, sometimes we see movies as great as they are whether for creative liberties or, or, uh, editing for time or whatnot I'm not sure if you, you know, we, we get an idea of what part of your story is, but obviously you don't get the whole story. So please, by all means, keep going on and letting us know.

Just wanted to let you know. So  I think one of my roles that I ascribed to myself on our podcast here is that, so like you and Michael are from American Samoa, I'm Afrikaansi, Samoan and white. Raised stateside. And so a lot of things that happen on the island, uh, within our culture, I'm actually very ignorant of.

And so you talking about your story of, especially in the, the story of, uh, Fafa Fina, I think one of the things that  I misunderstand, or, and I think a lot of people who in the, you know, the mainland and Western cultures, uh, when they hear, when they. They either don't know what Fafafine is, or if they do, they seem, we seem to get this, uh, picture painted for us that in American Samoa, it's a, it's a safe haven.

Like this is what every trans person wants to be, et cetera. Like this is the goal. And so when you're talking about your struggles, uh, over there and experiencing hardships, that's, I didn't know that about that. And so I think maybe that's a good thing that you clarified. Like, look, it's not all sunshine or roses, you know, there's still a struggle. 

I think for the, for the most part, we live comfortable lives here, and a lot of the struggles that we face are,  are coming of age, during our coming of age stages in life. But Tāwhātine adults and Tāma adults live very comfortable lives, and we are some of the most respected people in, in American Samoan and, and in the Pacific.

So there, in a sense, it is sort of a utopia for SOGIESC people where we can excel at whatever we choose to do in life and we are respected generally in our communities, but a lot of the struggles that we face come from, stem from the effects of colonization, Western influence, religious influence, and, you know, it's important to, to mention that because although we do live comfortable lives as adults, there are, we do have our own struggles and stems  from all of those influences outside of our culture and our people.

But traditionally and culturally, we do have a place. And we do have responsibilities that are set aside for us by our traditions and our culture. And so, um, I, it, it is, the Fatah Pina and Fatah Tama identities are beautiful identities and significant  to our culture and our people, but that's not to say that we don't have our struggle.

For sure. And just, if you don't mind me asking, like, just kind of along those lines too what, how would you? Phrase like, uh, the differences between  your understanding or a Samoan understanding of what Fafafine means and is compared to the conventional understanding of transgenderism in the West. So I think that's a lot of Afrikaans and a lot of people outside of the Pacific region or Pacific knowledge tend to equate Fafa Fina to trans woman.

And  a lot of times, Western cultures try to equate  things or identities to things that they understand, to make it easier for them to understand who we are. But, uh, Fafa Fina is not the same as trans woman. Not only in, um, social perception, but but also in identity, the identity in itself. Fafafine, like I mentioned, is a spectra,  which because the, the meaning of Fafafine is in the manner of a woman, and this might sound controversial to the LGBTQI  narrative, but in the manner of a woman Uh, also means or denotes that we understand that we are not women.

 And I think it could be controversial to, especially to the trans identity, because there is a push for a narrative for trans women to to equate to women. And a lot of times they say, There's this thing that trans women are women, and I understand where they're coming from, but for Fafa Afine, we understand that we are not women.

We only present as women and we live our lives as women, but we cannot equate to our our sisters, our mothers not only our physical attributes, but also the cultural ? The cultural responsibilities that are set aside or reserved for them, and the cultural roles that are reserved for us as Fafafine and Fatama.

And so there's a lot of things that make us different.  I think the biggest thing is there's no, there's no sense of pursuit for Fafafine and Fatama to take up spaces that are already reserved for women and men. Because we grow up. Understanding that our ba'a fa'asino leba'a peloa'i or our fa'asino manga leba'a peloa'i is this contextual space between any two human beings or groups of people that separate us in regards to the cultural structure of the Samoan people and,  and those are sacred spaces that under Western influence we might tend to want to overlap, but, um, I think what's beautiful about the Fafafine Fatsaam identities is we know our role and  the spaces that we should take up.

, but yeah, I think that's the biggest difference is, is, um, the sense of belonging and the things that we value And our priorities in regards to the different identities. And that, that helps me out a lot, actually, like just try it. Like I said, from the outsider looking in  genuinely, I was looking for the answer to that question.

And so thank you. That actually clears it up a lot for me personally. So thank you. It's also the reason that I continue to play for the men's team. , You know, growing up comfortably as a young Fafafine aside from,  even after being bullied or being called, um, being called names as a, as a young Fafafine, um, I always found that on the, on the soccer pitch, I was respected I think it's because I was good,  and growing up more as a Fafafine and realizing that I don't face the same struggles that a lot of trans women in women's sports face.

That,  it made me realize that my privilege is coming from a place where I can be out as a Fafafine and as a trans woman. But also Recognizing that I, another privilege I have is that I'm a trans woman that plays in men's, in a men's team.  So I didn't have to face a lot of the struggles that trans women and women's sports face.

But I also feel that I didn't need to pursue women's sports because of the fact that I was respected. And I think that could be a huge, um,  that could help change the way.  Trans women and women's sports,  you know, try to ease the tension in regards to that subject. I think if a lot of trans women grew up in space, or in grew up comfortably, and didn't have to face a lot of the struggles that they do face in Western societies, they didn't, they don't  really need to feel the need to pursue women's sports. 

And that's just You know, speaking subjectively because I wouldn't know, it's not a part of my experience, but, uh, What I can do is try to use my own experiences as a Fafafine and as a trans woman who plays on a men's scene to help shed some light on the possibilities that, you know.

 Now speaking on responsibilities and role you're, you're right. Uh, in American Samoa,  what I see is, uh, Fafafine community is, uh, Well respected when they reach adulthood, basically, mainly because, mainly because they take on major roles as educators,  taking care of the family, you know, pageants and all that, right.

And that's what I've been seeing from the Fafafine community is they're going strong for our people and stepping in for the roles that a lot of people don't want to step in. So that's what I've been seeing. Yeah, Fafafine are known to be diverse in their skills and we can do anything.  And a lot of the jobs or tasks that men and women don't usually, aren't usually good at, or don't usually take up, Fafafine and Fatsama take up.

And, but from a cultural point of view a lot of times, because Fafafine  and Fatsama aren't  expected to settle down or marry a lot of times, Or almost all the time, Sahafina are expected to take care of the families, especially the elderly. Our siblings get to marry, settle down, and have children, begin lives of their own.

for themselves, but Papahina and Patsama don't usually settle down or marry and have children  , and so it becomes our responsibility to take care of our parents and our grandparents. And you see that all the time. I did, I myself moved home in 2017 to take care of my, my late uncle's, uh, my dad's brother and then my grandmother soon after.

Both have passed on And so, like, I'm trying to figure out what to do with my life now. And just in time for the promotion of Nexo Wins. But, that's just an example of, you know, the cultural roles that, you know, Papa Finan Fatama have that we accept and no matter where we go in life,  when it's our time to  take up this responsibility, we come back home and we carry it out.

I

was going to ask what, what are you doing nowadays, but I think you just answered it. Yeah, I, I mean, I have a sense of freedom, a newfound sense of freedom, because I've been stuck at home for so many years taking care of my uncle and my grandma. This freedom is sort of new and so um, my grandmother passed in December and we had her, uh, her funeral and I can't even remember if it was January or February 2023.

And then I got word from Mexico Winds that they were going into post production and wanted to, um With the release date, and they wanted me to watch the film, so I got to watch it in April.  Uh, and give my feedback. And,  I didn't know that I was going to be invited to do the tour. Thankfully There was a Hollywood strike.

I'm probably the only person in the world that was happy there was a Hollywood strike because then I got to do the, the tour and it was, it became my responsibility to promote the movie and make appearances and speak on behalf of the film and try to promote it as much as I can.  And, um, because the actors and the cast.

And couldn't, you know, because of, uh, Insolidarity with the, the guild and  the writers. Um, the actors Chose not to make any appearances.  So, yeah, it all worked out for me. I think, I, a lot of people, They're just saying that Hafazine and Fatama are, uh, Blessed to  take care of their, um, elderly and their family.

And I feel it. My cup, my cup keeps overflowing. Because of, and I truly believe it now, I mean, when people say it, 

I never believed that because it was a struggle. It's not easy to take care of our elderly family members.  But now that they're gone, I feel, I truly feel that the blessings are coming back to me.  And I'm grateful.  I mean, these are a once in a lifetime opportunity. Who from American Samoa, born and raised, can say they've done a Hollywood tour for a movie that is about them with an actor that plays them? 

I mean, that's me. Surreal,  to say the least. Now that, that really is, and you know, rest in peace to your grandmother, and you know, congratulations to you on all the opportunities that have come your way. I just wanted to ask, you know, now that we're talking about the movie a little bit now that you've seen it, and I know you're, you've taken a role in promoting it how do you feel that wait for many times. 

Yeah. How do you, how do you feel that your story was conveyed? Will you feel that it was an accurate portrayal or whatnot? So when I saw it in April, I had a lot of problems with it. But it grew on me. You know, I think my initial feelings towards Kaimana's parts, Kaimana is the actress who plays me, my initial feelings were. 

Um, cringe. I was uncomfortable seeing those parts on the, in, in the film. Because  those were my actual struggles, you know, and I wasn't sure if I wanted people to see those things.  And although I had signed off on the contract and allowed them to tell my life story, I wasn't, you know, initially I wasn't comfortable seeing those parts about my life.

Um, so.  They aren't accurate to the timeline of 2011, but  they are accurate to my own experiences. But  the more I watched it and the more I talked to my family about about those parts, the more I realized that those are important parts to show. The  beautiful parts about the Samoan Papakini identity, but also the struggles of the trans woman identity.

But, more specifically, the struggles of a trans woman in sports, having to decide whether whether I should continue my hormone replacement treatments as a trans papafime athlete who plays on a men's team, because  trans because hormone replacement treatment does affect your body physically in a way that I wasn't able to perform as competitively as I, I could. 

Prior to taking the hormones.  And that was one of the lowest parts of my soccer career. Was trying to, having to decide whether to continue hormone replacement or to stop it. Because I wanted to still play competitively. And both were passions of mine. To keep playing competitively or good enough to play on the senior men's national team.

But also to transition as a Papakini and trans woman. And so, that was my biggest struggle. And  I felt that it was important to show communities and people outside of  the Samoan  community. Because then, you know, people in the world could see our struggles and hopefully sympathize with us and our struggles. 

And hopefully make the environments that they're in more inclusive, um,  with not only within themselves but in their communities where, where they, if they are ever faced with a trans person or anyone from the LGBTQI plus spectrum, they could try to speak up if there was anything, if anything happened to that person.

You know, be an ally for me.

Yeah, I, I, I personally love the movie. It's something about seeing our culture, especially American Samoa being portrayed  in a Hollywood movie, right? The language, the songs. Yes. You know, it's, it's so different hearing our language and seeing our practices. Although. They are very Hollywood interpretations of our, our practices, like the song, and the, you know, the curfew, where, you know, we don't stop  in our tracks, and we do, but not in the way that they were portrayed in the movie.

You know, a lot of little things that were were, what's the word? Exaggerated? Yeah, very exaggerated for, uh, to, to make it more. Appealing to, um, audiences outside of the Samoan culture. I mean, it was funny to us, but a lot of people outside of our culture don't understand that it's not the way that they should read it.

But it was pretty cool to see a lot of those things, especially the music and our language be spoken. It was, I thought it was beautiful.

So yeah, to our, to our audience, make sure you go check out the next GoWinz. It's available on Disney plus now.  So you have no excuse. It's basically everywhere. Yeah. Blu ray, DVD. Yeah. So it's available for you to watch. The documentary is also available, has been re released as well. Um, It's been off of streaming sites for a while, because it was released in 2014, and I got to do the tour for that, the worldwide tour for the documentary in 2014 and 15.

But this Hollywood remake is a completely different playing field. I mean, the, just the treatment of, you know, the, the Hollywood treatment was just next level for me. I was just shocked to be, you know, I thought I was sitting in these five star hotels and first class travel around the world and I thought, who the heck am I, you know, to be doing these things and It was a life changing experience and it opened my eyes to the possibilities of what this platform can do for me.

 But it's not the documentary and it's not the real life story. And so I always encourage people to use it. Go and see the documentary for themselves now that it's been really released. I mean, I think that if anything, uh, you know, because I can only imagine what that's like trying to wrap your head around like, man, how did I get here?

You know? Yeah, exactly. I think that actually, uh, but that, I think that actually speaks to, uh, basically your merit as like.  An inspirational figure and, uh, your merit as a soccer player, you know, like I, like you're outstanding in these things and it's basically the gift that's kept giving, you know, that you've been able to do multiple world tours, trying to, like, not only did you do your, your thing as a, as a player, but then also doing your thing as someone promoting this story that is obviously touched many people's hearts.

So, and, and like, so, yeah. Congratulations on that. Thank you. Thank you. It's been a, it's been a crazy journey. But I think  the movie, doing the tour for the doc and for Nexco Wins, Taika's Virgin,  was very rewarding and I'm grateful for all of the experiences that it brought me. But I think the biggest, um, The most fulfilling experience for me was becoming a FIFA legend.

And soccer has always been my passion since childhood. Being a trans woman was a slow coming of age thing and I am passionate about it as well. I can see as a football fan and as a trans person but not as passionate as I am about being a footballer.  And so being invited to the FIFA Women's World Cup final match in Sydney and Canada.

 Uh, with the president of FIFA, Gianni Infantino, and the Secretary General, Fatmah Samora and the U. S. Women's National Team coach, Jill Ellis, inviting me to a private event where I was highlighted for being the first out trans woman to bring the FIFA Sanctions Amendment, but also all the visibility and advocacy that I've done to help Make football more inclusive of LGBTQI plus athletes.

That ceremony where I was named an official FIFA legend, a part of, being a FIFA class, a FIFA legend class, with some of the biggest names in the world, um,  was for me a lot more fulfilling than any tour that I for anyone. And, and, uh, I just wanted to put that out there because, you know, there,  there. 

Hollywood might have given me a lot of wonderful achievements,  but becoming a FIFA legend was the biggest achievement I've had personally. Yeah, that's amazing. And celebrity or a 

FIFA legend. So, but we'd like to, we'd like to ask our guests these questions because we here at Behind the Lava Lava, we like to learn.  Or. You know,  or you can even give any advice, but do you have any questions for us here at Behind the Lava Lava? Why Behind the Lava Lava? I guess, when I first saw the name, I thought, hmm, what's behind my lava lava?

It's my body.  So, so, um, why this, why this name? I guess. Go ahead, Michael.  So yeah, we are not new to this question. We love it when people ask this question because it starts to explain our origins.  So we voted on the name behind the lava lava.  You know that the word lava lava means cloth in Samoan. So the idea is to replace the word behind a person,  replace the word person with lava lava. 

So We, basically we are cut from the same cloth, but everyone has a unique story to tell. So that's what the meaning, the clean meaning of the word Lava Lava, behind the Lava Lava is. But we get all the jokes, you know, the other meaning. Yeah, that's so creative. I love that. Nah, I like it because it does sound, it's silly sounding from the get go, which I like that about it.

But I always think of it as like, who's the person underneath what's under the surface.  One of my Uso's over here, like I live in Las Vegas, one of my Uso's over here is always like clowning on me. He's like, Oh, you mean what's under the lava, lava, behind the lava, under the lava, lava. That's it all means the same thing, man. 

That's pretty creative. It is what it is, but that, but that. But I mean, you know, it catches attention, if anything. So, yeah, there's a podcast here, a new one, you know, really only Michael, do you know, be the only, no, it sounds, sounds familiar. Well, he, him and a few of his friends created breaking breadfruit.

And I, you know, a lot of times these podcasts, especially in, in Oceania, they're so creative in the way they, you know, the names that they,  they call their podcast, but also how the focus, the conversation always is related to the title of their,  their podcast. I thought I spoke with them before the tour.

And it was, I thought it was interesting to have these spaces where, you know, Pacific stories are. Amplified, elevated, but told in a more genuine way,  because a lot of times  in bigger outlets  they are, they have their set narrative where, you know, they're going to talk about this thing, but also filter it so that it's more, uh,  Put it, keep correct to their viewers or so that they could be  true to their platform.

Ah, and so it's, I, I, Yes. It's cool that we have these platforms, like podcasts, where we can just be real, you know. Definitely, and as, uh, you know, Michael's told this before. Basically, like, Behind the Lava Lava was the most politically correct of all the ones that were voted on originally. That was before I joined, so I'll take his word for that.

Like, him and his friends, they're all ex Marines, so they got that Marine Corps humor, you know.  Jaya, shout out. Uh, your people, your, your, your cheerleaders and,  and where can people find you if they want to contact you? Okay. Oh, I like to shout out my family, of course I'm from, from a very strong family.

And they've created, they've given me my, especially my parents and my grandparents. They've made a name for themselves.  to the point where us as children growing up, we lived comfortably and  we didn't have a lot of struggles. But also shout out to the Fafafine community and the Samoan people for being true to the aspect of cultural significance of the Fafafine.

Otherwise,  we would have the same struggles as trans women and gay men and lesbian women.  I think it's, it's beautiful that although we have struggles at a young age, we,  we've become flowers growing up, as said in the movie. But also shout out to the Football Federation of American Samoa  for allowing me to be true to myself as a Papua New Guinean, but also.

Continuing to celebrate me continuing to have me on the team, I guess. I mean, I'm one of the oldest players now, and although I could still play competitively it's become more and more difficult to keep up with, especially the youth players. So, my life as a, my career as a footballer is coming to an end, but I will always be involved.

Um.  Shout  out to, oh, this is a lot of shout outs.  Shout out to the creators of Next Goal, it's a documentary. Steve Jamison and Mike Britt. Without them, our story wouldn't have been documented. Um, and essentially this Hollywood version wouldn't have been made. And all of these opportunities wouldn't have existed.

Yeah, Um, but you can find me on, I'm more active on Instagram. So my social media is divided where Facebook is for my family.  Um, Instagram is for the public. And then Twitter is where I just rant about politics.  It's for different purposes. So, uh, yeah, depending on what you want to see from me.

So. Check it out. Check my social social media platforms out but I'm mostly active on Instagram.  Uh, what's your handle on Instagram real quick? Uh, I'm at JayaSanLua. 

And we really appreciate you for joining us today and just sharing your story to the world, but Fa'atai Terilava for the opportunity.  Thank you so much for having me, Michael. 

It's Spencer, but you know what? No, no, no, no, no. Don't even worry. No, I'm telling you, I, I, I go to a class all the time and I have a friend who's known me for years. Literally just called me Steve. Oh my God. You're not the only one. I'm sorry. just look like a Steve for real. I knew Michael for many years.

You're good. You're good. No, you're good. You're good. Don't even worry about it. Like, I'm, and I'm not even making that up. Like people keep calling me Steve. I think that my parents messed up my name.  Maybe you just look like a Steve. 

But yeah, to everyone, thank you for tuning into this episode of behind the level of, I hope you enjoyed our conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow, drop a comment and leave a, leave us a review. This is Michael Tan and the team signing off. So far so well.