EP 83. Beyond the Airwaves: Frankie and Jess Unplugged.

Get ready for an inspiring chat with Frankie Corrigan and Jessica Ferguson, former radio pros turned podcasters! With 18+ years of radio under their belt, they reminisce about their favorite moments and the strong bond they've formed with listeners. But when their radio journey hit a sudden end, they faced tough times together. Thankfully, their friendship kept them going, leading them to dive headfirst into podcasting. Join us as we follow Frankie and Jess's journey from the airwaves to the world of podcasting, fueled by resilience, passion, and a commitment to connecting with people everywhere.  @TheFrankieandJessPodcast  

Support Frankie and Jess by visiting https://listentofrankieandjess.com/ or follow their social media @listentofrankieandjess.

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Transcript

Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Lavalava, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the vibrant people and cultures of the Pacific. I'm your host, Michael Tan, and joining me today are Spencer and Ati Mua. Before we get started, a quick reminder, if you enjoy the show, to please follow, subscribe, and leave a review.

Now let's jump straight into it. Today, we are so excited , to welcome,  The Behind the Lava Lava podcast, Frankie Corrigan and Jessica Ferguson of the Listen to Frankie and Jess podcast. Talofa, Jessica and Frankie. Thanks for having us. So, Frankie and Jess, could you walk us through, we're going to start from the beginning of your upbringing and personal life.

Where are you guys from? Sure. So I'm from Arizona. Born and raised there. I lived there for,  uh, I think 27 years, something like that. But yeah, I just loved growing up there, and a lot of family still there, and knew from a young age that I wanted to be on the radio. I loved music. It was my escape. I had my little gray boombox, and that was my dream to be on the radio one day.

And then I ended up graduating from Arizona State with a broadcasting degree and wanted to be on air, but of course you can't really start there. It's kind of hard, so I worked at a radio network for four years, made some good connections there, and my boyfriend, future fiancé, and now husband, also made some connections through my connections, and that's how we made it to Utah.

So I am from Detroit, Michigan. Uh, let's see, I knew at about 14 or 15 that I wanted to go into radio. And I think that was for, from my dad, the love that he had for like old, old time radio. And I didn't figure that out until I was in my thirties that I probably went into that business because my dad loved it so much.

But I went to a broadcasting school right out of high school, uh, because I didn't want to go the college route. I knew I wanted to go into broadcasting. Long story short, worked at a lot of little itty bitty markets around Detroit,  interned in Detroit, then had to move away from Detroit to kind of get the career started.

So I was in a lot of different cities, Fort Myers, Jacksonville, D. C., Charlotte, back to Fort Myers and then out to Salt Lake City in 1997 and fell in love with Utah.  And was, we were at that radio station for a long time, almost 26 years for me and almost 18 years together with Jess on the morning show.

And yeah, just, just love where we live. And that's one of the reasons we chose to stay. We didn't want to leave Utah. So this is our home. Thank you for sharing. Now I want to try to mix things up.  You guys have introduced yourself, but now I want to go around the room with our cast members and this will serve as our icebreaker moment.

The question that the topic I'm gonna bring up is, What is a memorable moment in your life growing up? So I'm gonna start off with Ati. Well, thank you very much.  Ah, man memorable moment back in the islands of American Samoa. Hi guys, um, I'm originally from American Samoa like majority of our podcast members.

So growing up, uh, back in the islands if, uh, you guys didn't know, Not familiar, American Samoa's U. S. Territory, 5 hours south of Kaua'i. Long plane ride there, uh, if you're from Utah, of course, and long plane ride for me because I'm in Texas. But one of the best memorable moments was saving my brother in a fight and  , and this was around age,  uh, I believe 10 or 11 years old.

Oh, no, no. This is age eight. This is, uh, uh, I got back, I just, I was in the states from 95 to 2000, and then around 2001 was when it happened. And, uh, we were, uh, walking down from, because in, in, in American Sam Mall. We have to wake up early in the morning to catch the school bus to go home. And when I mean early I mean not to go home, but go to school, uh, and then we will catch the same bus coming back from school.

However, though, early in the morning, we have to wake up like around four or five o'clock in the morning just to catch the school bus. Because if you missed the school bus, you're either walking to school. And when I mean walking, I mean you're walking about 10 10 to 20 miles. And this is no lie. This is, this is a long walk.

And, um,  our school was in, uh, Masifau. I'm originally from Sailele, not a lot of my, uh, our listeners know this, but you know, from Sailele, Masifau is a little, there's another, it's a village over from our village. And, uh, you know, if we missed the bus, we had to walk there. If you know, my parents, we had a vehicle, but my dad was strict.

He had, uh, he was an army guy too, as well for 35 years, retired. And back in 2017, I was one of those guys where if you didn't wake up early to as well, you know, Hey, he was leaving the house. So when we will wake up, you know, miss the bus, miss the truck, we will walk, uh, walk to school, you know, and we will walk without any clothes, you know, we had our uniforms for school, but so we would wrap those up, put it in our bags and they just weren't, you know, our boxes in our tent tops, you know, to go to school.

And, uh, once we got there, we changed into our uniforms. And then, you know, start school, we will get there, we'll leave it around, you know, six, usually we wake up and we get there like around seven 30, right when the, the bell for the school to start the school usually starts at seven 38 o'clock.  And so anyhow, I see all this, you know, we, uh, school finishes.

We were walking, uh, the bus usually supposed to come drop us to the village after school.  For somehow this day, the bus stop and on top of the hill, which was about five miles from our village. So we had to walk from where. The top of the hill where the bus stopped and then we have to walk home. So on our way, way down, uh, I was in the back with my cousins and my brother and a couple other you know, folks in our, our kids in our school were, were ahead of us.

And, uh, we, we got down to, uh, to Masochi and, uh, there's another village before our village and there was a bus stop there. The family that was behind there. I guess whatever was going on, some commotion the, the, the kids, cause we were younger this time and the kids, the older kids there, uh, came out and start yelling at, at the group of kids, which my brother included, included, and they were just saying, you know, all sorts of bad names.

And, you know, because. They felt that they owned the bus stop that was down in front of their house. So we usually, well, before we get to our village, we would stop at that bus stop and then just relax, chill, maybe, you know, you know, from the long walk, you know, from where the bus stopped, uh, dropped us off.

We stopped there. And so my brother and, you know, a couple other kids in my village, we stopped there and they were, you know, just, I guess they're not being loud, but you know, they were at a public spot. This is a public spot and the house where there are these adult kids where they're right behind them.

So the adult kids came out, started yelling at them, started saying names. And then  one of the older kids had my brother in a clothesline grip, like he was held him like this. And as soon as I got there, one of the kids was like, Hey man, your brother's getting beat up. I got there and he, he was getting a clothesline like this and he was about, from my look, he was about to pass out.

So I jumped in there, tap, tap. And then, you know, I was like, you know, tap, tap everybody. And then, you know, start kicking this guy, sidekick this guy. And there was like three of them and it was only me. And there was a lot of other kids just standing and looking. And that was like, to me, it was like kind of like a proud moment.

Because up until, until that point, me and my brother, we used to fight a lot. We just, cause I, you know, I, I stayed in, you know, I was, you know, in my earlier years from 95 to 2000, I was in Cali and he was by himself down in American side mall. So when I came down, he kind of resented me, didn't want to, didn't look, see me as his older brother, you know, whatnot, because, you know, I was kind of foreign to him, you know, I didn't really belong there.

So up to that point, we were always getting into arguments every single day. And when I mean arguments, I mean, like he would come at me with a machete, you know, And I, you know, this is, you know, this is, there's no lie, this is straight up. This is definitely a Savoy story. Yeah, this is a true story. So, you know, come at me with shit, that's how bad our fights were.

But up until that point, uh, all the kids that he knew that were growing up with him, none of them hopped in to help him. So I was there, I helped him, I kicked the, wherever that, I remember it was an older I don't know, it was a guy or a girl or whatever, but, you know,  I got them away and then, you know, it was just me there.

And then, you know, I, I saved them that day pretty much. And then after, since that day, me and my brother was like this till this day, like real click. So that was one of my best moments, you know, childhood moments growing up. So, you know, I just share that as my first time ever sharing this on a. Public stage like this, but, you know, that was one of my proudest, most and fondest moments.

And I was just being there for my brother at that time, because if I wasn't there, I don't know if my brother would have probably survived or live. So good, good, uh, good times. And then, you know, like I said, ever since then, you know, till this day, you know, my, you know, it's like one of those things where, uh, you know blood is thicker than whatever, you know, water, you know, whatever the saying goes.

So till that day, until now, my brother kind of like, you know, Yeah, it doesn't trust a lot of folks anymore. You know, we're clicking now. Anyhow, that's my story. Thank you for listening. All right. So like, first off, Ahti's a burly guy, so like, I don't know if there's Ahti at any age that I would feel like, uh, I feel confident I could take him in a fight.

So  I don't know what these guys are thinking, but, uh, so for me, like, all right, so a little background on me. I grew up in 29 Palms, California, little Marine based town. If you know, you know.  My dad was a science teacher at the junior high there. So chances are if you attended the 29 Palms Junior High School between the 70s to the 90s, my dad was your, either your math or your science teacher.

And so when I was a little kid growing up, I was attending 29 Palms Elementary, which was a, you know, different building, just maybe, you know, like a good lot away from, from the junior high, but, you know, within walking distance. But since the, you know, kindergarten started later in the day, my dad had to get in early to start prepping his class before school starts.

He would just take me along with him. You know, I guess here, here's a little five year old me. You know, like most, uh, high schools, Or junior highs, like the science room has a little closet, like walk in closet area where they keep all their beakers and the chemicals and science stuff. And my dad had this little like, like four inch TV screen, black and white, like bunny, you know, rabbit ear antennas and stuff.

You know, I would just take, my mom would put my cereal and milk in a little Tupperware container. So when my dad took me over and I just had to wait there until Kindergarten started. Uh, I would just stay in that back room watching this little TV and like it was really like the Flintstones or something like very staticky black and white Flintstones are playing and I'm just sitting in the back room eating.

Well, one day this, uh, one of his students like, I don't know, overachiever or something there before school starts walks in and sees me back there. And she freaked out because she thought that Mr. Harmon, the science teacher is keeping a little kid captive in the back room.  And so like, I thought nothing of it cause I was just five years old, but you know, I cracked up because some of my cousins went there and I think they heard the rumors and then like at one point, my dad, my dad walked me out and introduced me to the, like two of his students that had stumbled upon me to introduce them.

No, this is my son. And he's just, Waiting for kindergarten to start, so that's my little story there. That's funny. That's hysterical. I thought you were going to say that since he was a science teacher, they thought he shrunk himself and you were the mini teacher. I'm walking around in his lab coat, you know.

Yeah, honey, I shrunk myself. Yeah, Rick Moranis.  That's funny. That's a good story. So for me, I was born in American, so I'm a born and raised there until I graduated and went to the Marine Corps. But growing up,  there was this big field, open field in our village, right?

This field is used for games and ceremonies.  And for us, the kids of a village, we come together and play sports. It could be soccer rugby, football. But we will play until it was sundown and at sundown around six, um, there'll, there'll be a curfew and you'll hear the curfew  when the bell is rang. And when the bell is rang, you better freeze wherever you are.

You cannot move. You have, you have to freeze and sit down because during that time,  every village. Especially each household, they're having their evening prayers. So in American Samoa, it's very religious. Um, everyone's saying their prayers, singing their songs. And the only time you can get up and move  is after the third bell.

So the first bell, You stop, second bell, you'll know it's halfway, and then the third bell, you're released. So wherever you are, so after the third bell, you're released, but by then it'll be night time.  So I remember as a kid in American Samoa, there's only a two way street throughout the whole island. 

And the cars travel at 25 miles per hour. Can you imagine going 25 miles per hour throughout the whole island? That's a max max speed limit on the island. So at nighttime. Every few, like I would say 50  feet, there's a light pole  and that light pole will light up, um, the streets because everything is basically dark.

And at that time as a kid, I was very scared of  spirits and ghosts. Because in America, Samoa, Samoa, we're very superstitious. A lot of people are, even though Christianity is there, but a lot of people still tell those stories and have those beliefs, so. The only time as I'm going home, I would  wait for a car to pass by and I'll sprint behind that car to the next light pole until I get to, uh, until cause it was like a 15 minute walk to, to my house. 

So over there we walked, we, and we took the, the, like the, the buses.  So it was for me, it was a memory because when I think about it.  I was this little kid who was scared out of his mind,  just running after vehicles,  because that was the only source of light on the road.  So that's, that's my story growing up as a kid.

So  I love it. It's like, go to the light. That would be me. Frankie knows I'm the biggest chicken. I'd be freaking out.  And she'd be driving faster than 25 miles an hour. I'll tell you that. You too, buddy.  This is true.  Oh, that's funny.

So seeing that I, I brought it up telling you my background growing up in Detroit and, and how I got into radio, or I think the reason, one of the big reasons that I got into radio, a pivotal or not a memorable moment for me. Was  I was about our boy's age now. So we have a seven year old boy, Axel, and I was about maybe a little younger.

I was six or seven and I'll never forget my dad. He just installed these dimmer switches at the house. So this is back in the seventies. He was proud of it. Right? So he lowers the lights to kind of set the mood. And he told him my dad was born in 1937. So he grew up in the forties listening to radio, you know, those all time radio shows.

And he was so like stoked and happy. And he created this, this moment, this one moment, and he turns the dimmer switches down, gets the lights all low. And he said, I want you to close your eyes, use your imagination. He said, when I was your age, we didn't have TV. We had radio, old time radio shows. And he had these records. 

And he put on like the first record, I want to say it was like the Lone Ranger. And then he put on the Green Hornet and the, all these old time radio shows that were in the thirties and the forties. And it was one after the next, and it was hours that we sat there listening to just comedies and dramas.

And, and that became our thing, like until the day that I moved away and moved out for radio. I left the house at about  20, leaving from Florida, but up to 20 years old. I mean, I was going to, I went to broadcasting school. I was working in radio, like, you know, like I was still green in radio, but that was still our thing as a late teen, 20 year old kid, before I moved out, we would sit down and listen.

Not only to music, but it was these old time radio shows. So my dad passed away right before our little boy was born. Uh, it was February 9th, 2016. Axel was born August 30th, 2016. We were lucky enough to be able to move my mom and dad out here to Salt Lake. So I had a few, you know, really good years with my dad before he passed away.

But when we moved out. I remember I went, I flew one way out to Detroit so I could drive them back and, you know, we got the moving truck off and then we put the last bit of stuff in the car. And my dad actually had the nerve to say to me, he was like, I was going to throw these away, do you want them? And these were the records.

I grew up listening to, and I'm sure I figured this out in my thirties, that, Oh my gosh, you know, I'm a slow learner. I'm like, that was probably, uh, one of the big reasons that I got into radio, but I still have those records today. So that they're very special to me. That was a very special time just growing up.

And, and, and I had a chance, several chances before my dad passed away to thank him. You know, for giving me the love that he had, that he had no idea. He just loved that medium so much. And he passed it along to me. Didn't even realize that he was, and I didn't either, that he was igniting a spark in me. So that's, that's kind of a, uh, I, since we were talking about that and kind of where I started from and where I came from, that, that kind of  stuck out, I guess, that's my moment. 

That was pretty amazing. That was pretty amazing. My, my dad also has a love for that medium too,  like he, he still reflects on when he was a kid and you know, they, nobody had a TV and he would, uh, they would listen to the boxing matches. Like he is, they, they love, he said, you know, back in my day, the heavyweight champion was the toughest guy in the world and we would listen to all their matches.

It was like, it's just such a cool medium. Cause yeah, what a time, what a time. Yeah. So that's great to paint the pictures, you know, that's the whole thing. And that's kind of where, like when we started and what I got into radio and then. When Jess and I hooked up in 2005, I mean, that's always been our mantra.

We, we try to paint the pictures and we, you know, we tell stories and share our lives and, but you constantly try to paint that picture, you know, to people that, you know, are listening.

 Gosh, it's hard for me to pick a moment. So I'm just going to give you, I'm going to splice a few. Uh, My, uh, dad worked really hard. He had like three jobs growing up to give us the life that he wanted us to have better than he had. So we had a lot of fun. He taught us to work hard and to play hard. 

So they would take us on trips to Hawaii and California and Vegas. And we really kind of had the all American childhood. We really did because my dad worked his ass off and, um, he was gone a lot of the time, but my mom, thank God was there for us. Cause my sister and I were both dancers and in sports and really, really involved.

But I think some of the special moments, my dad had like a show truck. My love of cars and trucks comes from my dad and my grandpa. Uh, and. We would do these shows on Saturday mornings. And so we get up really, really early and go in his truck and we'd be on the freeway and I'd see people looking at us.

And I was like, Oh, this truck is so awesome. My dad was so fastidious with his cleaning. He's just an OCD guy, which I love. Cause I picked that up. Not as bad as he is, but I love cleanliness. Like my dad, my grandma, but we were on the freeway and people are just like honking and waving because my dad had a really nice truck that he built. 

And worked really hard on and we go to these shows and it was just me, my sister, my dad didn't have a son, so I was kind of like his stand in boy, even though I was really, really girly, I would, you know, dust off the truck and he'd buy me a donut and I'm like, that's where it all went downhill. Dad, I'm like, thanks a lot for my love of donuts.

I can't help myself anymore. But but it was special to have those daddy daughter moments on Saturday mornings with my dad. And he taught me how to take care of cars and to. To be good to your stuff that you work hard for. So you can keep it for a long time and respect it. During the summers, as I got older, you know, we would have our boom box outside and my besties would come over and my dad worked really hard and we were able to get a pool in the backyard.

And so we just lived out there in Arizona. We just lived in the pool. I was like a fish and I loved it. I loved growing up in the sun and with my girlfriends and the music. And we'd go down the street and get slurpees. I mean, just good innocent times.  I'm grateful because as we got older, my mom started working too, and they did, they really, you know, busted their asses for us so we could have a really, really good life.

And so I'm really appreciative of what they did for us. Thank you for sharing. Now you two have been in radio together since 2005. That's 18 years, right? And probably. Even before that,  can you tell us what are some of your favorite moments on air?

Favorite moments is, is, is what for me is when I can make Jess laugh almost uncontrollably, and I love that to the point where  we just, we wait for her to stop laughing. So that's, to me, I love that. I love hearing a laugh. He has an infectious laugh. It's just fun. It's fun to, for me, it's, it's, I don't know, that's one of the ways that we connect with people is you just. 

You're having fun, right? You're just making each other laugh. And it's almost like people are, we've had people say this to us, like they're there with us in the room and we're all just in this conversation and, you know, like, or maybe they're standing back and listening to it. But yeah, I don't know. I just love making Jess laugh.

We have a, we have a really good time together and it's been. Even lighter since all the stuff that we kind of left behind us in this new venture that we started. It, it seems like a whole new birth.  Wouldn't you agree, Jess? It seems like a, like we've been given this new, new lease. Oh, big time. And it is, I feel the same way when Frankie gets me going and then I hear his laugh, it makes me laugh harder because I love when he laughs, it just brings me so much joy, but.

Yeah, we do have a good time together, and I love that our relationship continues to grow. I mean, Frank has an amazing wife and son, and I have an amazing husband and son, and that our families are just kind of fused together, and we're all one big family, and we get to hang out with Frankie's ma and his brother and, you know, his wife's family, and, and vice versa.

When my parents come into town, they want to see Frankie. I mean, it's just a neat family, like little village, we say, that we get to We have kind of formed with our, you know, friends, family, and our listeners. So as far as moments on air, there's been so many, I mean, over the years, we've interviewed a lot of really amazing people.

We've worked with a lot of amazing people. It's hard to kind of pinpoint one, but yeah, I think laughing together and just our bond and how strong we are. We really are like siblings. We have a lot of similarities and then a lot of differences that we respect about each other. that kind of makes us think.

And I really like that. I love that I can lean on him and vice versa. It's really cool. Cause it was, like I said, just me and my sister. So he's, he's a brother I didn't have, but always wanted. And God knew that. So it's pretty cool. Now that's pretty excellent. And it's like, uh, I think that's probably one thing that, Probably helped you guys be so successful as you guys have this very legitimate synergy, you know, like you weren't, you know, nobody listens to you and things like, Oh, this was just some corporate think tank said, Hey, get this guy and get this woman.

And like, uh, you know, they'll match like, no, you guys actually click. You're actually friends or you actually get along. And that's just, that's something I feel like. You know, you can't just throw that together, like, you know, in some cold corporate way. And it's that warmth that I'm, I'm positive your, your, your audience feels.

And it's probably why a lot of them have continued to follow you into your journey. And now, you know, even speaking of that, like, I'm sure that same bond and that support that you feel for each other, I'm sure that helped you a lot with what is essentially the focal points of your podcasting career.

Which is essentially being laid off. Like, I know, uh, Jess, you refer to it as a layoff. Frankie, you call that a firing. And so like, I, I don't know if you both come to terms with the term firing now, or if you still are back and forth, but, uh, but anyways, going on to that, I just wanted to throw it to you, um, you know, like I said, that being the focal points of your, Uh, how did you essentially cope with laying off because you had a very long and successful career as an endearing duo to locals in Utah radio?

Yeah, that was, uh, it was tough. And as you know, or maybe people that are watching this don't know, it was very abrupt for us. I mean, we were.  I'd say fired, but Jess still says late, late off. But we were let go very quickly. Uh, came back from vacation, did that Monday morning show. Within about eight, they separated us eight minutes.

I was fired. They brought Jess in about eight minutes. She was fired. And it was like, you can only take with whatever you can take within your, your reach. And then they walked us out and it was just, it was traumatizing. It was horrific. So the fact that, you know, it happened the way it happened. If I didn't have, we've talked about this, if I didn't have Jess. 

With that, we were there, no question. We were there when we were going through, you know, some really tumultuous times at the radio station. So we were, we've been a lifeline for each other for a long, long time, but it was that, and then some when it happened and, and we chose to do this and go this route, but it was very therapeutic as we were recording the episodes and just kind of going through and processing through, but yeah, if I didn't, if I didn't have Jess, I don't know.

I mean, I truly don't know. What it would have been, it would have been pretty,  I mean, and it got dark at times, but if we didn't have each other, it would have been really, really bleak. I agree. I think it, we already had a good foundation, but it just strengthened our bond. I mean, we're best friends. We talked to each other about everything, you know, and just, it was, if you have to get walked out, it's nice to have your buddy with you, you know, cause I thought when they were letting him go, once they had told me, I was like, Oh shoot, like, what am I going to do?

You know? Cause we were each other's life raft for many years. I mean,  from 2020 on, I mean, and things started before then that we don't really discuss on our show because of privacy issues with other people. But  I mean, from 2020 to 20, you know, 23, it was just,  It was really hard, and there's a lot of hard that happens in life, and there's always a reason for it, and you don't always know at the time, but I was praying every day for God to do something, because we weren't utilizing our talents anymore, we weren't, we were giving our all from an empty tank, and it was the way we were treated, it was the way we were coached, it was the way we were ignored, I mean, there's so many things that happened in those few years that It was a pressure cooker and the best thing they could have done was let us go.

And now that we're free, it's just, it's the most amazing feeling. I told my husband today, we were leaving church and I said, I finally can put into words.  How this feels when people would say to me before, Oh, I listened to the show, especially the last few years we were there. I would cringe because I knew, I knew it wasn't our best work.

I knew it wasn't our heart a hundred percent in that anymore. And that doesn't feel good. And it feels like your soul is slowly dying. And that sounds dramatic, but it felt so Uncomfortable. It felt so uncomfortable to be there anymore. And so the best thing they did was release us. And when people run into us in public and they're like, I'm loving the podcast, it reenergizes me because we're able to speak more freely and from the heart.

And we give our all even more so than we could before. And.  They know our good bad and ugly and they still love us and that's there's just something to be said about that It's really a priceless gift that we get to do what we do together and to have people follow us and believe in us I mean, there's just no greater life.

I concur a hundred percent.  Oh, yeah I was about to you know, ask a question on  you know your pathway from there You get that little break, I would say,  I would term it. So, and then you guys fell on, onto the podcasting realm. Did you guys ever thought about going into that space? I know Jessica, you kind of touched up on it as far as, you know, it's like a, a rewarding, you know, a blessing, I would say, uh, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you know, how did you guys come, uh, come across starting the podcast and how's it been so far, you know, in this process?

It's been awesome. So we had a podcast, like our show had a podcast. And people would say to Frankie and myself over the years, you guys should have a show you should do, especially when podcasts started to get bigger and more traction. And we're like, okay, well, we're kind of in contracts and have mortgages and families.

We can't just go off on our own right now, which is kind of nice that they laid us off because it forced us to use what we are using now and we're loving it. But Yeah, it was, you know, we had other offers from other radio stations that reached out immediately, which was really, really flattering and we were honored and it was very humbling at the same time.

We were just like, Whoa, cool.  We, people like us. We're, we're doing good still, even though, you know, we didn't think we were anymore because of how things went down. But, yeah, we just knew that we wanted to continue doing a show together, we wanted more freedom and flexibility, and we knew going into another radio station would have a lot of constraints that we had from before, and so we just didn't want to do that.

We wanted to do something different. We figured it was the time, you know, the timing of it. The way it happened, I mean, if we could, if I could go back and change anything, I wish they would have just been humane about it and just came to us  like people that literally invested their hearts and souls into that company for a long time.

We did it for decades. And it's like, if they would have just come to us and said, look, it's not working,  let's kind of part ways, let's do this professionally. And just like giving you the, the common courtesy is like I said, just being humane, right? Letting us go and then giving us a timeframe, like a week or two or whatever, we could at least say goodbye to our listeners and they didn't do that.

So that's the part that really hurts our hearts is the way they did it. But like Jess said, and like what you were saying, Michael, it, it, it truly was. And we could see it. It just took us maybe a little longer to see that it was this, this gift from the universe, this blessing in disguise. As the dust settled. 

You know, we could see it like, okay, this is what we talked about it for years. So, you know, we'd had people telling us, like Jess said, you guys need to do a podcast, but we just couldn't, the timing was not, it was off. So we kind of figured that this was a blessing in disguise and we were going to take the chance.

This is like the time to take the chance on ourselves. And we, we did believe in ourselves, but like Jess said, I mean, there, but then there's that whole, the way it happened. So there was a lot of doubt there. Because we were in that for a while, that really toxic kind of environment. So you really start to question.

And doubt yourself. And, and even though we knew deep down, like, okay, well, we're pretty sure we were supposed to be doing this, but then you kind of go through these moments of, are we though, is this going to work, but ultimately, yeah. I mean, we could just tell as we started putting, you remember Jess, like that first episode.

It was a little rough. We were like, okay, we think we remember talking in longer forms and long breaks. And then second episode, third episode, it just felt like, Oh my gosh, we remember this. And, and, and by that, I mean, we remember talking cause we used to have long talk breaks back in the day. We didn't play barely any music on the show.

So it was like coming back to us, like, this is what we remember and what we loved. And, and then as we're kind of, you know, talking about what had happened and the highs and the lows and just processing through it, but. Yeah, we could tell that we had, still had something special, if not even more special.

The fact that we had this longer talk form now that we're able to go into this, you know, we figured we wanted to be in an audible space, but this, this is probably going to be the best space for us as far as audible.  So true. And I know, um, you know, our spouses are super supportive and my husband, Kevin was behind the scenes, just like you, you and Frank need to do this.

You need to do this. You guys are good enough. You, you know, you guys are good together. You've got chemistry. You guys are so good at what you do and you love what you do and you have so much support behind you. And so I'm so grateful for him kind of pushing me because, you know, you just feel kind of lost, especially like Frankie said, the way things went down and leading up to it.

But, um, It's been great. I mean, we started kind of recording the time capsule. We call it the rollercoaster of emotion because we weren't allowed to talk to anybody. We both had contracts. I had a three month deal after I was walked out. Frankie had a six month deal after he was walked out. And so we had to kind of lay low, but we could do stuff behind the scenes.

And, and those episodes are, you know, pretty telling of how we were feeling and the ups and the downs. And some days he was like up and good to go and I was having a down day. And so he'd pick me up. I mean, that's what's so great about our relationship is one of us can be off and the other one pulls the other one up and it's just, it's a cool, uh, You know, just brother sisterhood that we have, but, um,  people are listening to podcasts.

I mean, the thing is people aren't listening to radio for music anymore. They're going to Apple, Spotify. They're doing their own playlist. My son's 16 and his car, he doesn't listen to the radio. You know, people want more choices and freedom and flexibility. And so it just made sense for us to go to podcasts.

People want to hear a longer. You know, talk episode, if you will, and not just little two minutes here and there, and they want the full story. They want to have a conversation and connection. Well, and I, I think that's, uh, you know, the neat thing about it, you know, first off it's their loss, your gain, and not just, not just yours, but you know, everybody else.

Cause now you're basically taking what everybody loved about you in the Utah area and bringing it to the rest of the world. You know, you've got your old following still there. I'm sure they're rolling with you and they're happy to have you back in a more,  Like free, like a format, but I mean, look, I mean, at some point, I think maybe, you know, at some point radio, just going to contain you guys, because first off you had a lot going for you.

Uh, you both are a living debunk of the old phrase. You have a face made for radio. Uh, now you guys were made for the camera as well. So, you know,  welcome, welcome to that side of things. But second of all, like, I mean, look. You have, you actually bring something, I think, to the podcast sphere that let's, let's admit 99 percent of podcasters don't have, and that's an actual,  uh, knowledge of the profession.

I believe, you know, cause most of us are like, look, you know, the internet is a great thing, but it, you know, the floodgates opened and now everybody with a microphone thinks they can broadcast. You guys actually cultivated an audience for 20 plus years. Like, With something that is not easy, you know, like, I mean,  you have that energy.

I don't know how you do it. You guys like, you know, you're bouncing off each other constantly. Like you're from the episodes I've listened to from the interviews I've listened to, you're always on. I go back and look at our own episodes and I'm just like. Man, why am I still talking? Like, it's like, come on, dude, like, dude, wake up, wake up, come on.

Or sometimes it's like, Oh dude, calm down, calm down. But you guys, you got it just right. But that's what I mean though. It's like, we're figuring it out and I'm happy to figure it out.  You guys bring something. Of an era of professionalism to a medium that's mostly amateur, like, you know, and, you know, not to say you can't be amateur and be successful, but it's kind of a breath of fresh air.

And it's something that makes you guys stand out, I believe. Oh, thank you. That means a lot. Yeah, that's sweet, man. so much. Yeah, I'm glad that you guys spoke. Picked up podcasting because there are never too many podcasts. There are a lot of stories that need to be told. And each story is unique. That's why our podcast has evolved to telling the stories of  all veterans, the Pacific  culture and people and small businesses and, and what I found and what I've.

Able to relate to with your podcast is your stories. A lot of people can relate to, especially me. I, in 2015,  I worked for a company  called Union Pacific in North Platte, Nebraska. For a year and a few months, I hustled for this company, gave them my all. And for them to just lay off thousands of us because the economy wasn't doing bad, because the economy was doing bad at that time, they laid off about 15 percent of the workforce, which is thousands of people across the U.

S. And I was part of that number that was laid off. And they didn't even acknowledge us who  worked for them. And You know, because we weren't allowed to take time off. It was frowned upon  to take time off, especially if you're sick or anything. So, they called me one day. I was sitting, having a little lunch with the missionaries in Nebraska.

we were eating like spicy noodles, right? And suddenly I got this call, they told me, Hey, you're fired, uh, you're laid off. We need you to come tomorrow morning, grab your stuff. Ugh, everyone in the room. Thought I've seen a ghost or something because my job basically was dropped and I'm like,  I didn't know what to do.

How was I supposed to provide for my family in the middle of nowhere?  So  the next day I went into the, to the facility. No one greeted us.  The only person who confronted us was a union rep.  We did not see any supervisors, no nothing. They just took us to our lockers. We cleaned it out, walked us out.  So that, that made me, you know, we were just a number to this corporate, you know, business, this company.

So that, that made me just change my whole approach in life. And every job that I work in now, I'm just like, I'm just a number. I'll basically do what I want. Like I work on Hill Air Force Base now. It's a government job and it's stable and I'm just doing like the minimum. Just to go by, because I know  we are all numbers  on this, you know, and  so, so the point is us, the people can relate to you guys, what you guys have been through, the people love you, the community love you.

My daughters love you. They always ask me put on Frankie and Jess. I'm like, wait till the next episode comes on Thursday.  So we were pretty much caught up. Well, there are some episodes that I had to look ahead, like the boom, boom room that I can't show to  my kids,  but it's still good for the whole family to listen to.

So that's, that's, that's what I love about your podcast and what your platform brings to the table.  I just want to point out. Real quick to the cool thing about that story is that's what actually brings us all full circle. Cause that's sad story that Michael just shared with, uh, with us of him getting laid off.

That's what eventually brought him to Utah. And that's what, and him having work here, driving to work and listening to you guys in the radio. That's how we found you guys. And so it just really, it's a bummer, but that is what ultimately brought him full circle. And here we are today. So I love that. We talk about that all the time.

Nothing's used in vain, right? Like as scary as it sounds and how am I going to provide and what's next. There's also like a calmness of, okay, where I was, wasn't serving me. And I, I deserve better and better is coming. And so it's just getting through that tough part. And then you see the better, and you're like, okay, this is what it was all about.

You know, a lot of things, you know, just, just on a topic of, you know, things happen for different reasons and we all know God has, you know, it moves in different ways. And at the end of the day. There's always you know, the brightness at the end of the tunnel, you know, a lot of situations in the past in my own personal life, I've had a lot of things happen to me, started a business, getting out of the military , didn't have any projects or anything like that, but starting a business brand new, didn't even know nothing about business and then, you know, just letting, letting it happen.

And that's how I operate majority of my time in the world today. I let things happen. And if it happens, it happens. If it's positive, it's positive. If it's negative. You know, I'll look at it and like, yeah, move on. You know, that's, that's how I operate nowadays. You know, with the whole podcasting where I'm in here with, uh, Behind the Love of Lava, I love this uh, format.

And the reason why is because we can say anything, you know, this is a platform where, you know, we can say anything, nobody's going to tell us, Hey, you can't say this or that, you know? So, and I'm pretty sure  that's how, And where I'm hearing, that's how, you know, in that corporate, uh, stage where you guys were, you guys were limited, you know, in some formats or, you know, uh, I wouldn't say you know, uh, well, filtered, let's say, but you know, in this stage, you know, I could share my stories, you know, say whatever I want, but, you know, but at the same time, be consistent anyhow, uh, at the end of the day,  I love the space of podcasting, you know, just because, you know, You know, now I've never, you know, when, when Tan approached me, uh, about this a year ago now I never thought I was going to be on this space, honestly, you know.

Because I, I come from a medical background. I thought I was going to go into the hospital and, you know, do all this, which that's still my goal today. But I've never thought that I was going to be on this platform speaking, you know, my opinion out there. Not that it matters, but I really appreciate it, you know?

So,  at the end of the day, thank you for you guys. We're hopping on here and joining us, you know, that's one of those things. And, and without, you know, tan, I would have never met you guys. So I appreciate it. Now I, you know, now I'm, I'm a follower now, you know, he shared it with, uh, with our,  with our, uh, our group and now like, Hey man, uh, I love that six year old story.

So I'm, I'm like, Oh, okay. I like that. I want to keep listening if you don't. Yeah. So yeah. Okay. Thank you guys.  Thank you. That's awesome. Yeah. We appreciate that. We're all in the business of connection. That's kind of what we like to say. I mean, you guys as well,  you guys are connecting to people and that's what it's all about, man.

That's what life is all about. It's connecting. Right. And that's, I think where, especially in this world that we live in, and don't get me wrong. I love technology. I mean, technology right now, this is bringing us together. Right. But it's a slippery slope. It's a fine line with it. Right. If we get, if we,  if we let it go where it's going,  it can really disconnect us.

And it's things like this that truly do connect us. Right? Connect people, sharing the stories, you know, we're visually seeing each other or if it's in the audible space, you're still connecting to people and we're in the business of connection, man. And we need that.  It's so true. And like you said, and people do want to hear your stories.

Cause like you were saying, Michael, like stories need to be told and it's every single human being, not just some people. And so that's, what's kind of neat with the platforms, right? There's people we wouldn't have. Normally heard from, but now we get to hear from. And I think that's cool because back in the day, Frankie and I know this, it was just movie stars and TV and radio.

I mean, they were the voices for everybody and that's not always true. And so I love that there's other platforms, you know, Justin Bieber, how he got into the business, it was like YouTube or something like that. So it's just neat that we get to hear from more people and that's just more connection, like Frankie saying, and it's so we're a lot more relatable than we.

Then we think about or give ourselves credit for. Yeah. And even up at, you think about in the last couple of years we had, you know, the, the corporate, the suits and when they were making the changes, they were literally taking our guests away and saying, people don't want to hear that. And we knew deep down  that that's not the case.

I mean, we did our show very well for years and we knew how to connect with people and then they started taking that. That ability away from us. And we just knew that that was kind of the death of it. We could feel it like, Oh boy. And like Jess said, I mean, speaking of which, I mean, it felt like we were slowly dying inside when they were taking more and more of that connection time away from us.

It's like, how are we supposed to connect with listeners in 45 seconds? And we're not allowed to have guests on, and we're very community oriented. And it's like, We want to highlight whether it's this organization or this person trying to get the word out. I mean, that's what it's all about, right?

Community. And when you have big companies  trying to put the kibosh on that, saying that we know better, this is what they want. They want 11 songs an hour. And like Jess said, streaming services, you know, left and right. You can get your, your music anywhere and have playlists. People aren't tuning in, you know, especially that time of the morning, our type of a show, they're not tuning in for the music.

And it's just. We knew that for years in our gut and then yeah, so I think this is the best thing Ultimately it is going back to the blessing In disguise, the gifts from the universe. We, we love it. We're embracing it, man. We love this.  No, that's excellent. You know, I'm a, I'm always of the opinion that, you know, putting limiters on artists and creatives is never a good thing, you know, it's like maybe there's some exceptions where you can like, you know, challenge them to work through those.

But. I, I'm of the opinion, it's never a good thing. So now on that track, so now here you are, you're, you know, you just bust it through the door, you're in the podcasting world. Uh, I'd like to know like, uh, what would you say your aspirations for the future are, like, uh, where do you want to take this and, uh, ultimately what's your goal and what do you want to accomplish with this, with your podcast?

Oh, that's so fun. We love that stuff. I mean, eventually right now, it's so awesome. Frankie has a studio set up in his music room at his house. So thank God we have that. And he acquired all the equipment. So we're able to do the show there. But I know we've talked about it'd be nice to have our own podcast studio one of these days and even a space where other podcasters could come and have a space because People aren't very techie or they can't afford the equipment.

So it'd be nice speaking of community to have our offices and our studio and maybe have people come in there almost like a gym, you know, they swipe their card and they go do their show and they maybe, you know, go on with their day. But, um, It'd be nice to help other people and kind of maybe mentor other podcasters that maybe don't have the background and foundation that we do.

We've talked about opening a restaurant one of these days for our fans to go and we'd have really fun plates like Cooper's ham and cheese or Axel's chicken fingers, you know and just to to really bond the community even more a space where everybody can hang out and gather and we just we're really excited about the future and the podcast has been going extremely well.

We are so so grateful You overwhelmed with gratitude. And again, it goes right back to the community, right? We're just, this is what, we love this place. We don't want to go anywhere. We love it. We want to stay put. You know, if it goes outside, like Spence, what you were saying, like, we're the, you know, because we are getting people outside of Utah that are listening.

That's icing on the cake. We just, and that's great. We love people all around the world to be listening to us. But I mean, this is, we, you know, this is where we want to be. This is where we are. We love Utah.  And speaking of Utah, We live in Utah and I'm sure you've come across some Pacific Islanders. Can you guys share some of your experiences your thoughts and, you know, your personal connection experiences with Pacific Islanders that you've come across?

Well, when I moved here in 97, I'd never been west of the Mississippi. So I'd never come like, and then I moved to Utah and for me personally, like I said, this, everything was new about Utah, but I  quickly met a lot of Pacific Islanders that were listeners of ours. And then I don't just the, you just the best people.

I don't even know. I mean, you're part of the reason that I fell in love with this community. And when I, when I say fell in love, within two weeks, I said out loud,  I do not want to go anywhere. I want to retire here. I just felt this, I don't know. I felt like it was my home. So I, other than that, I just connect.

I connect to all the people here, especially Pacific Islanders. I mean, we have so many listeners. From so many different parts of the Pacific that, that are just, you can just tell, I mean, the, the salt of the earth, just the best people, family oriented. I mean, that's what, you know, that's where I come from and just family and just caring about the community.

And yeah, so that's kind of my story. I don't really have a direct connection other than that. I mean, I'd never met any Pacific Islanders before I came to Utah. And the biggest hearts, the biggest hearts. So my son's 16, he played football, he's on the hockey team. And  it's just. The hearts and the gathering and the food. 

I mean, it's just so welcoming, so welcoming, and we've so enjoyed it. And coming from Arizona, we didn't have a lot of Pacific Islanders where I grew up. So that was awesome to come here and just feel the love and the warmth and the sense of community and family, even though we're not blood family, we're family.

And you guys are just so warm and inviting and. That's been really huge for my family. Cause we don't have any blood relatives here besides the three of us. And so to play in the sports arenas and have that kind of family has been huge. Yeah. I was going to say that both of you guys are from the East coast, you know, and now coming towards the, so to say, and you know, now you found this, uh, warmth in Utah, now my experiences was a little bit different when I was stationed in Virginia and, uh, this was in Quantico and, you know, used to go up and down coast.

So I. I think it was I 69, I believe. I don't know if I'm right, Frankie. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyhow. Probably 95? Maybe. 95, yeah, I 95. Yeah. I 95. So My experience, that was kind of different. It was, it was so, like, so, The bubbles are bigger over there for some reason. Like, and it was so, like, I would say hostile.

You know, and not only that, it was just like, everybody was into their own thing. They, you know, I was trying to speak, you know, I'm from the islands, you know, where, where our bubbles are so close, like I, you got to hug me and, you know, in order for me to say, you know, that's, that's, that's just the life it was, you know, like, you know, we didn't, I didn't know about racism until I got to the States and I left it.

I left at a young age, went back down and I left, uh, you know, the military in 2008.  But, you know, I've never really felt racism until, you know, around those parts. I mean, I'm not saying anything about the people or anything. I just, that's how, you know, I've never felt that. And then when I was there, it was kind of, you know, weird.

And then but overall, my point is, you know, I,  anywhere you go, you, you, you try to establish some sort of familiarity. And as you were saying, Frankie, you got there, you loved it. People treating nice food is, is, is perfect. Yeah. In our culture, we love eating, you know, there's, if you, if you show me or point to me a Pacific Islander that weighs 180, you know,  that's test. 

I want to meet that guy, you know, but we love to eat, you know, we love to eat. And, you know, I mean, Spencer, he doesn't, he's not a buck 80. Spencer's like 200, 210. So, uh, but yeah. And, you know, so that was my experience and it was really weird. And uh, going forward. Are you guys you know thinking about, I mean, aside from the regular, you know, startups and stuff like that, are you guys thinking about, uh, getting any, um, you know, starting anything with the community as far as like Pacific Islanders or anything like that in Utah?

Like, you know, I, I'm pretty sure you guys are familiar. We're doing our, uh, , annual, uh, uh, veterans dinner, you know? So, Uh, are you guys thinking about something like that within your own realm, podcast as far as with the community?  Absolutely. And I think we're only a, well, a little less than two months into kind of finding our groove with the show.

And so once things get a little bit more stable and we're rolling out the show, we definitely love connecting with our listeners. Putting on events and, you know, raising money for charity and getting out in the community and doing fun things and getting the whole family involved. So yeah, definitely in the future, we'll have more of a staff to kind of help us facilitate  this because we're kind of mom and pop shop for now.

But as we grow, we absolutely have big plans for the community and just to get out and connect. Still in the building state, huh? Yeah. No, no, we can definitely relate. We can definitely relate. It's like this sometimes, like, you know, we get these big dreams, mainly Michael. He's the visionary of the whole group.

It's like, I'm like, uh, but where, you know, you want to get out and do as much as you can, but it's like, all right, you know. We're not on that level yet, but we will do what we can at this level, but you know, so, but it's onward and upward as we've all been, basically, I think has been the theme of this, this interview is like, you know, out with some, something that was holding us back and it's onward and upward, and we're taking other people with us.

So that's great. So true. I think kind of the hard thing with our podcast is that we. I know collectively as a group, we want to do so much, but it's so hard because we're located in different areas, you know, expenses in Las Vegas, I'm here. And there's a lot of community events that, uh, Michael goes to in Utah.

And I'm like, man, I wish I was there, you know, I could be there, but, you know, unfortunately, you know, we're away and this is the only  time that we get to actually talk, you know, aside from our little group chat, you know, off. Our sessions, but you know, other than that, you know, uh, I'm more of that, you know concept as well.

You know, I love to get out there and gauge, you know, do a lot of stuff with the community, however, we're limited with our own areas.  My area here in El Paso, very limited, uh, Pacific Islanders. Uh, there are a few retirees that came in and they retired here called El Paso their home. But other than that there's a big Mexican community here.

And interestingly, they think that I'm Mexican, you know, so I've been approached many times, you know, with a lot of, uh, The local folks here are speaking Spanish, and I'm like, uh, hola, no speak espanol.  So, you know, I gotta, you know, those are the only, you know, words that I know so far. But, uh, other than that, I  really appreciate it, guys.

This is, uh, pretty nice, uh, getting to talk with you guys tonight. You're awesome. And it's, it's late your time. It's like 11 o'clock. You are awesome.  So that reminds me of my favorite.  Uncle's quote. His name is Bruce Lee. Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless, and add basically what is uniquely yours.

So I'm very grateful for having you, Frankie and Jess. I just have one more question because we love to ask our guests this question, because we want to learn, um, do you have any questions or advice for us here at Behind the Scenes? Love, love. Well, going back to the being a part with there's if there's an event coming up in Utah, we could do you guys could do like this there.

So everybody from everywhere could be there at a part of this. I mean, I don't know what that looks like, but it's capable.  It's possible. You have the capability to do it. You know what I mean? So, so people that, like, if, if there is something going on for Spence and he's not, you know, he's in Vegas and you're in, you know,  You could definitely do something like this, maybe on a bigger scale, like get like a, a bigger screen TV.

And that would be kind of cool, seriously, to bring other people that might not be able to make it into. If something's going on here in Utah or Spence has something going on there and you want like that again, it's that connection and we're able to do it. We're able to pull people in and visually have  like this space and where you guys can interact or if not just watching and you feel like you're there.

That is so true. That would be awesome because the, since the three of you are in different states, like Frankie's saying, you guys could hold events in each of your towns and then broadcast it and you're all doing the same thing in a different space. I think that's, that'd be really, really cool. Yeah, it's doable.

That would be cool. I mean, look, that sounds like an amazing idea. The problem is, is that Michael goes to too many events that have really good food and I don't know if I can stay on the screen watching him eat all the time. It's like,  I want that. I want that. Why can't I be there? Seriously. Oh  my gosh.

Cause Michael finds the best spots and I'm, I'm always jealous. I'm like, man, I gotta go. I gotta move back to Utah. I don't know what I'm doing here. Where do you, where do you eat at, Michael? Where's the best place? My husband was upset today because after church we had to grab a,  Quick bite before Bible study, Mo Betta's wasn't open and he was not happy.

That's his favorite.  Oh, that's one thing about Polynesian places. They close on Sundays cause they go to church. I get that. But if on weekdays follow nothing but grinds. I'm not sure if you knew about that food truck, nothing but grinds, you can check them out on Instagram. They serve one of the best Hawaiian street food out there. 

So. Check them out because  location to location, but it's nothing but grinds and ATI and, and the grinds ends with a Z.  I love it.

Okay. I'm writing it down.

So we really appreciate you, uh, Frankie and Jess for, for again, joining us today. Now you guys can add behind that love, a lava to your list of Pacific Islander connections. And we really appreciate you guys for, for. Who are tuning in with us. So how can our listeners find you on social media or, or do you guys have a website? 

So we do have a website. We're everywhere. . Yeah. Listen to Frankie and jess.com. That's our website. And then from there you can find us on Apple Podcast, Spotify. Uh, and then listen to Frankie and Jess on all social platforms. So Instagram, TikTok.  X or formerly Twitter, Facebook. So listen to Frankie and Jess.

And thank you guys for having us. Thanks for doing what you do and inviting us. And thank you for your listeners listening. Like this was such a huge honor. We were excited to talk to you guys and keep up the good work. Yeah, this was fun.  And we'd love to be back on in the future. We're not putting you on the spot, but we're putting you on the spot.

We'd love to be back in the future. That's right. But next time we'll meet with that food truck outside. Yeah, there you go. Most definitely. In the grind. Yeah.  No, thank you so much. It's, it's been a true pleasure getting to know you folks and, and so ha, you know, it's such a great inspirational story, you know, like.

From the ashes, like the Phoenix, you know, so, but honestly, thank you so much for sharing your journey and can't wait to keep listening and, you know, tuning into what happens next. Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot. We appreciate you guys.

Hey to our listeners, thank you for tuning into this episode of Behind the Lava Lava. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow Behind the Lava Lava. Drop a comment and leave us a review. Remember to follow Behind Listen to Frankie and Jess on socials and also let's go ahead and subscribe on their podcast.

This Is Michael Tan and the team signing off from Behind the Lava Lava.