EP 68. Samoan Fa'alavelave: Balancing Tradition and Financial Considerations.

In today's episode, we delve into the topic of Samoan Fa'alavelave and explore the question: Should one engage in the practice of Fa'alavelave in the event of their passing? We'll discuss different perspectives on this topic, from keeping it simple to the challenges of modern practices.

Our hosts discuss the complex nature of Fa'alavelave and how it can encompass various life events, such as funerals, weddings, and title bestowal ceremonies. They also touch upon the financial aspects, where family members are expected to contribute money or gifts during these events.

The conversation highlights the importance of tradition and cultural practices, as well as the potential for abuse within the system. They touch on the impact of demands made by certain Matai (family chiefs) and the financial burden it can place on families.

The hosts share their personal views on how they would like their own Fa'alavelave to be handled in the future, emphasizing simplicity and consideration for the financial well-being of their loved ones.
They also discuss the significance of family ties, land ownership, and the challenges faced by those who migrate from Western Samoa to American Samoa in pursuit of better opportunities.
Ultimately, the episode raises important questions about the role of tradition and culture in the lives of Samoan families and the need for balance between preserving these customs and addressing their potential downsides.

In today's episode, we delve into the topic of Samoan Fa'alavelave and explore the question: Should one engage in the practice of Fa'alavelave in the event of their passing? We'll discuss different perspectives on this topic, from keeping it simple to the challenges of modern practices.

Our hosts discuss the complex nature of Fa'alavelave and how it can encompass various life events, such as funerals, weddings, and title bestowal ceremonies. They also touch upon the financial aspects, where family members are expected to contribute money or gifts during these events.

The conversation highlights the importance of tradition and cultural practices, as well as the potential for abuse within the system. They touch on the impact of demands made by certain Matai (family chiefs) and the financial burden it can place on families.

The hosts share their personal views on how they would like their own Fa'alavelave to be handled in the future, emphasizing simplicity and consideration for the financial well-being of their loved ones.

They also discuss the significance of family ties, land ownership, and the challenges faced by those who migrate from Western Samoa to American Samoa in pursuit of better opportunities.

Ultimately, the episode raises important questions about the role of tradition and culture in the lives of Samoan families and the need for balance between preserving these customs and addressing their potential downsides.

Sponsors:
Matai
Independent Island Insurance
Pasifika Foods

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Transcript

Hey, good evening, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Behind the Lava Lava. It's the usual crew, it's your boy Ati, Johnny, Prez, Michael Tan, and myself, I'm Milford Tiafala. And before we really get into anything, , let's just check in with the boys. You know, that's something we always talk about, mental health and, and being strong in that case and being there for our Usos.

Yo, so uh, let me start off and check in with our, our man over there in Texas, Ati. How was your week this week, man? How you doing? How you feeling?

Ah, man. Same old, same old, fellas. Um, you know, got daddy daycare going on. And, uh, it's been, uh, it's been a struggle to try to get out there on the golf course lately.

Oh, uh, you know, yeah, uh, uh, the ladies, uh, busy with work and, uh, you know, I'm over here doing daddy cake daycare, but it's been good, man. It's been smooth. Uh, you know, uh, you know, it's just a blessing, you know, blessing to be here with you guys. You know, blessing is, it's always good when you, when you get to a Sunday.

And I mean, one week is down and we're closer to get a 2024, uh, you know, closer to the holidays. But other than that, you know, it's been a blessing. You know, my daughter, you know, she's, uh, she just turned seven months on the 11th, so, um, didn't do anything particular. Just give her a, you know, nice warm bath.

And then, you know, just celebrate all those a little small, uh, uh, stones, you know, so I'm pretty happy, uh, family's happy over here. And I wish there was like a lot of, a lot of Polly's or I would say Pacifica folks out here, but you know, I only got my, my golf group. So, you know, that's who I keep busy with out here and isolated El Paso.

But, uh, appreciate it. Thank you, fellas. Hey, happy seven months to baby. And the way you talk about giving her a warm bath, you know, I'm kind of like, yo, give me a warm bath. Shoot, I think he's one of those right now, myself. Speaking of which, Johnny, you know, how's your week, man? How you doing? How's the family?

How you doing? Everybody's, everybody's good. . Achi over here talking about warm bath to seven month old man. My daughter, the third one just turned 12 yesterday. Nice. 12 and birthday man. She's catching up to me in height. She's like to my chin now and I'm six five. So these girls are growing up quick. .

I remember those days when they're seven months old, they're all little. You put 'em down, you turn around and look back, they're still there. Oh, wow. The kids are getting older. But yeah, no, it's uh, it's been fun, you know, um, it's been a good week. Uh, we recently had, uh, me and Michael went down to the Tongan, uh, festival mm-hmm.

that they had out here in Salt Lake. And uh, we had the opportunity to, uh, watch the rugby, youth Rugby League Union. Or yeah, the junior Utah junior rugby league. Yeah. Utah junior rugby league, uh, which was two of the girls teams that was sponsored by, uh, yours truly behind the lava lava and Matai watches.

And so, uh, it was, it was really neat. It was the first event. It was, uh, set up by, uh, one Eugene took him way out to, we had him on the podcast earlier, or the business spotlight. For this, the same league and, uh, the game was, to me, it was a resounding success. , it was a Samoa versus Toma game. It was a pride game.

And even though it was a Tongan festival, there was a gang of Samoans that showed up to watch this, this game. Like, and then everybody had. You know, there was little pockets everywhere, and every time, like, the girls scored, uh, the Samoan girls scored, a bunch of little kids with the Samoan flag would run out in the field, and everybody would be cheering.

And then when the Tonga girls scored, and then all this, these other little kids running around waving the Tonga flag, and you hear mate ma'ai everywhere, but it was, it was really nice, and then... Uh, the boys event was even, it was even more live. The game was great. Um, so it was overall, it was a resounding success in my opinion.

I thought that game was amazing. The turnout was good. And like for a lot of these kids, it's an opportunity to showcase their talents and maybe pick up some scouts. Because, um, they're still, they're getting scholarships to play rugby now in the States and they, for a lot of these, it was a U18 game.

So a lot of these girls and boys, it's, it was like their last little hurrah because the season ended for sevens with the big NAI tournament that finished a little like last month. So, I mean, it was, it was good. The event was good. , um, and it was just another opportunity for us to go out there and network and, and spend some time with the community.

So, I mean, but you know, it's hot here in Utah. So sitting out there all day, just getting sweated on and, and it wasn't that fun. That part wasn't fun. Food was good though. That's good. So a big part of opportunities exposure, and it's, it's awesome that, you know, these events are being put on and getting eyes on our young, Polynesian talent out here, especially for that sport, expanding it.

, but they 12 years old for your youngest. For those of you who don't know, Johnny's got beautiful locks as men's hair. When it's grown out, my goodness. But he's got nothing but teenage girls at home now. So we'll see how long that lasts. Oh my, my youngest is nine. She was my third. Oh yeah, my third just turned 12.

I, my oldest is 15. Yeah. But yeah, either way, nine's right around the corner from 12 and got a house full of, full of, they're smarter than you . I got emotions. He had that too. It's great though, man. Those beautiful locks last. I'll take a sample if they fall out. Restarting them. So we'll see how it goes.

I'll be balding. Just keep the back. We'll go ahead and kick it over to press. I know Michael Tan stays busy. , for our viewers. I know you see a lot of the, the reels and clips he puts out. He's always on the move. I was trying to not just grow. Behind the Lava Lava, but he's always trying to also help put exposure on other businesses from our people of the Pacific.

So how are you feeling, Michael? Tired? Yeah, I would say the last two weeks has been very hectic, um, especially for us, me and Johnny being out in the community. Just a week before we were out at the Utah Pacific. Island Heritage Festival. we're out there promoting our brands, the podcast and Matai watches, selling watches.

And we were also there to try to teach the community about the islands of American Samoa and Samoa because, for, for those who don't know, there are two Samoas, one that is independent and one that is, um, Technically under the territory of the United States of America. So we were out there. We had fun.

We enjoyed it. We had a lot of good food, man. I think these two Saturdays I ate a lot of lamb curry.  A lot of musubis, a manapua, some old thais, yeah. Yeah.

And, and I was in a rush to try to push the two episodes. The first episode was, for. Um, my Rickle, , trying to push it out before his, the announcement of the Decepticons for their music awards. So I was trying to get more promotion on it. And the second episode I was trying to push out was for the Mana Initiative, the Day of Polynesia that was held in Colorado.

But I heard that they were successful this weekend. And,  Congrats on Decepticons for winning, um, I believe they won two or three awards from the Pacific Music Festival, uh, awards. Um, but I was very busy, busy also with, uh, trying to pump out the Utah Pacific Islander Chamber stuff, trying to get some logistic, logistic.

Portion, but yeah, family's doing good. Uh, wife's trying to mimic my dad's cooking ever since he's left. So yeah, we've been eating good. Nice.

Stop by for dinner. Should be an expert, but judging going to go critique Sam's cooking. She don't beat me up. Oh,

that's good. Everybody's doing good. And I check in, uh, myself, families doing good. We got school about to start. Um, But other than that, um, this week has been, you know, pretty rough, especially for the people of Maui. You know, I'm an Oahu kid, but, um, my heart, man, my heart hurts for watching. You know, those are our people suffering and going through all that, uh, you know, donated money and whatnot to different causes, but, you know, there's, there's nothing like feeling powerless and wanting to help people, but you can only do so much.

So, you know, our, our thoughts and hopes and prayers are with them and,  we love, but other than that, before we get into today's episode, let me just mention that today's episode is sponsored by. Matai watches, you know what time it is. It's time to celebrate our people, our culture, our heritage, our pride. Do so by getting yourself one of these classic timepieces at BehindTheLavaLavaMerch. com. , all right. Getting into today's episode. I don't know why, but they assigned the most fia palagi guy to bring this topic up and we're going to talk about if something were to happen to you today, God forbid, too fa'alavelave.

Or not to file. I love it. Love it. There's a lot of debate around this topic and I know a little bit, but I'm pretty much clueless on the topic. So I'm going to go ahead and kick it over to Johnny. What are your thoughts? What are you going to do? Oh, man, I'm going full blown. Full blown. No. Um, okay. So my opinion on faalavelave, is that I believe it is a necessary evil.

I believe, um, in spirit, you know, uh, in spirit, the fall of love is a beautiful thing. It is a beautiful, , act of love that, you know, whether it's, uh, now With love is it can either be a, um, some sort of ceremonial practice to commemorate an event. You know what I mean? Uh, not it doesn't I know. And it's brought up.

Everybody thinks either funerals or weddings because those are the 2 biggest big ticket items that are involved and ceremonies are involved. Um, I know there's other. Portion, there's other major events like the Salfais and,  for the Ava ceremony for,  you know, getting a title or anything of the sort, but the two biggest ones that everybody complains about is funerals and weddings, because everyone knows in the Samoan community, when there is a Fadlave, usually your family comes together and brings together a certain amount of money, that amount is.

Determined by either your Matai or, or whoever is leading your family as a whole, and then everybody has to divvy up a certain portion. And I know a lot of families tend to lean towards their relatives that live in the States. And that's where usually the, the, the, the issue comes because every time there's always this little event.

Hey, I'm going to need. A couple hundred here, a couple hundred there, a couple thousand here, a couple thousand there, , gone are the days of gongas and suas, , now it's all money, money, money, money, but for me, if anything were to happen to me, realistically, I would like a simple falafel, , kind of like how my dad's funeral was, it was, you We honored the traditions still, but we made it as simple as possible.

And, , one of the things that they did was, , when people show up at your house and they bring over their CEs and then all of these EAs are passed back and forth and stuff like that. What ended up happening was we, we just changed it all into money and gave it back to people. But the majority of the, of the funeral expenses and stuff were handled by,  my mom and us, the siblings and, and, kind of like immediate family and everything else.

All the CEs were handled by my dad's families and stuff where they were the ones that were handling all of the monetary gifts and then giving them right back because it was, you know, my dad was one of those people that was, he was involved in all of it. Every, since I was a kid, people would call, Hey, so and so this funeral.

Wedding. And my dad would get money. Even if we didn't have it, it would send it, you know, 150 here, 250 there, 300, 600, 000. And it was always like that. And he did it forever. Even to this day, after he's gone, my mom still shows up to all of these father lovers that he's responsible for, uh, on his behalf. And she still gives and gives and gives because to my dad, it was always, , the word is service.

Service, service out of love and when you do it out of love, people remember. So for me, if I, if God forbid anything were to happen to me today, I would want now for one, you know, Ray Keller, I do have it through my work. I have life insurance. Okay. And my wife and I do have written instructions on what happens to the money and stuff like that, just so that if anything were to happen to me, my wife and my kids were taken care of.

Those are primary to me. And then all the Fall of Love is stuff can be handled by if my, if my mom or the Matai for the soil of eyes are still, is still alive, then I'll have them handle the Samoan side, but keep it as simple as possible. No big, nothing. Uh, I'll wait. Yeah. You  I want to hold true to the spirit of fall of lovers.

You've come and you showcase love. You don't need to bring anything to the table to show love. Um, at the same time, I don't want to put burden on my wife and my children and my siblings. So, that's just me. It's kind of like a hybrid version, but not so much so. And then plus I'm LDS, so I don't, there's not going to be too many fife hours.

Even though all my, all of my uncles are, are, are fife hours on my dad's side. I think there's at least four of them with their own ministries. But that's just, I mean, that's my opinion. That's how I would do it. And, uh, but you know, uh, that would be left up to whoever's running the show. Cause you know, if anything happens to me, I'm gone.

Can't really complain, especially not just coming out, you know, right out the gate and bashing it. Uh, the way you put it sounds very logical, especially for, , for a guy like me who doesn't know what's going on. I know your dad knows a lot and I'm pretty sure you have a lot of uncles and stuff that are very familiar with it.

But I mean, it doesn't have to be. I know that as times change, right? We evolve with the times I know Samoa is beginning to evolve with the times cause back then it wasn't all cash. You know, there was cash involved, but it was mostly the, the, you had these bundles and bundles of like hundreds and hundreds of stacks of, and now I barely see one role from the entire group.

But then when the, when the cash starts flowing in from, oh, this family brought, now it's thousands, oh, here's 4, 000 from this family because, you know, oh, we, they gave 4, 000. Well, we gave 5, 000. It's, it's like a show off thing. You know, who can outdo the other and then after you show up, show off with your, with your money that you borrow from your loans, then you get hit with reality that you have to pay all that money back and now your family is struggling.

Well, um, so we have that from Johnny. God forbid something happens to you. What are your thoughts on the matter? Would you want to fall in love with it or not? Hey, uh, so, you know, our culture is very complex. You know, there's a lot of, uh, uh, different little. Moving areas when it, when it comes to fall of love and, you know, uh, johnny hit it right on, on the nail.

Uh, you know, if I love it, does it have to be a specific, uh, event,  you know, it could be funerals, it could be birthdays, could be celebrating somebody. So funny. And, uh, just to , uh, I know for our non someone speakers, uh, so, so funny is, um, yeah. It's a, uh, it's like a, it's a ceremony, uh, for when somebody is bestowed upon a high talking chief or a Matai title.

 So this is a, you know, a big event where somebody gets bestowed a big name. Yeah, this is the ceremony, which also involves a lot of Awa, involves a lot of the moving parts in the village. And so to speak, uh, you know, you have the, uh, , the Reverend and in the village, you also have the small Matai's, the big Matai's, and then also involves, uh, you know, the whole, the youth in this big event, also called the Aumanga.

And Omana is also led by, uh, another Matai, you know, so it, it just depends on how a village in Samoa, how they set up there, but everything is all the same. , and then when you're also talking about, , Ie's, , Konga's, yeah, that's pretty much our. Our form of currency from back in the day. So that form of currency nowadays is, has turned into, you know, those Washington's that, uh, that we so see, uh, a lot of the families competing by, you know, Hey, you know, we, uh, we bought Lima's full, uh, 50, 000.

And then this family comes on, you know, on top of this family or 60, 000. And then at the end of the day, like what Tann said, you know, now face hate with reality and. Now you got to pay all those loans and all those, those money back. But you know, father loving was, it was just so simple. It was just, um, you know, before we moved to the States or before we started moving, you know, out here, it was just a simple act of helping the family that's in need.

And it could be just, it didn't even have to be money. It was just, we, we brought a food,  you know, sometimes, uh, in, in the old folks, uh, they would just bring, uh, you know, fish, you know, just to show their love, you know, just to show and, uh, their appreciation for that family and, and just to share the burden of whatever that family was going through.

So, you know, that was kind of like the whole idea behind, , Favlave from, you know, our back in the day. Uh, for me, it's simple. Um, I, I would, I would, I would love for nothing else to happen than just,  You know, my, my whole concept is I don't want to fucking, uh, I don't want to put a burden onto the extended families, you know, if anything, I, I would prefer private, you know, just my siblings there, , and then their, their siblings, uh, their, their kids, you know, their children, you know, to be at, at the funeral, you know, and that's it.

The reality is Fasamo is always going to be there. You know, and I've been to so many F of love is where we we're, try to incorporate a lot of the langi, so to speak. , but at the end of the day, it's always gonna be good. It goes back to FAO because the MATA system exists and the MATA system comes with res with a lot of customary, Stuff that we have to go through, um, IE,  if a, uh, faith out or a parkele in the village attends the funeral or whatever follow up there is, um, a tie always, they always want to step up and do like the facade more to respect that, you know, they're, they're never going to ignore.

The height or another, there's a, there's ranks like in, in the military, you have rank system or the ranks, you know, so it's, it's always going to go back to false. I'm where I've, I've been in so many followers where, oh man, the family is trying to keep it simple. And then at the end of the day, you know, all the corners and all the EA is all involved.

But for me, I would love to keep it simple. I'm in the same boat, you know, we life insurance is there. I don't want to. You know, put a burden on the extended family or, you know, other families, but you know, it's, it's, it's customary in our, in our, uh, culture that, uh, any, any stuff like that happens, you know, families will come out and support the, uh, money.

And then that's where the competition happens, you know, nowadays, you know, and, and it's true, you know, we, we've gone away, gone are the days of the Fushikonga. Now we're, we're, we're doing with fine mats. And, um, you know, uh, in different levels of our culture, of our society in Samoa, you know, may be in the, in the small unit of family and then extend it out to the community and then to government.

So far, Samoa is always going to be there. So despite how we try to make it simple, you know, just try to make it private as well. It also depends too, if your family has a big name. So you can't run away from those simple, you know, follow up lobbies, but, um, at the end of the day, I would want my, um, uh, uh, follow up lobby to be simple and, uh, you know, just involve my immediate family, you know, i.

e. my siblings, their kids, and that's about it, and then, you know, if my friends are also there, you know, they, because they're more, more than welcome to come, but other than that, you know. I'll be there, you know. I'll cut off one of my dreadlocks and throw it in the... Go, my friend. And it is... Yeah. It's gonna be in my will behind the love of lava, folks, man.

The door is always open.

I appreciate it, man. Okie doke. Okie doke.

Well said. , I like the simplicity. I'm along those same lines. , Mr. Michael Tan, my fellow Samoanese brother. What are your thoughts on the matter? Oh, he going full Chinese. It's going to be a Chinese funeral. So let me start off with saying that. I love our Samoan culture and our, I love our people, but, but , but I wouldn't want the practice of f Samo in my funeral. Uh, mainly because I, I am a very simple guy. , I want my, my funeral to be simple, whether it be a burial or cremation, uh, those are the two way that I prefer. Whatever is easier for, for my wife and my kids to, to put me on the ground, I'll go with that method.

, recent events that happened to my brother has caused me to kind of increase my dislike for the Matai. mainly because of the potential of abuse that is that comes with it. It's just like anything else. But yeah, my family growing up, and I'm talking about my immediate family, we've never practiced the Samoan, cultural,  traditions like the Fa'alave laves.

We practice the Fa'asamoa, but not the traditions. So there's a big difference on those two, especially when it comes to Fa'alave laves. , we stayed away from that when it comes inside the family, but when it outside of it, we, we, you know, we're welcome to serve other five love lovers because I've been to a lot of five of the lovers, the neighbors, the schools, , churches and, and all that stuff, but I, we've never really done it for ourselves.

So my mom was religious. She never. practice any of that salmon. , I'm trying to find the right word for it because I don't want people to mistaken, uh, you know, culture and, and what, what we actually practice. So, uh, my mom was religious. We never practiced that at home. She stayed away from it because she, she had her own preference.

Uh, she probably didn't like, People coming to us asking for money and, , and all that stuff in regards to to five love lovers. But, uh, for me, it growing up, I never practiced it without within our household, I'm not going to enforce it when I leave this world. So it's very simple. If anything, I always joke to my wife, uh, just take me to China, you know, take me to China, take me to where the monks are, you know, you have.

They have aerial burials where they Chop you into pieces and throw you to the vultures and, and the vul sprinkle you. Yeah. Just the rice patties. Yeah. Yeah. Very simple nurture for the next generation, huh? Yeah. . Next crop cycle, the circle of life. , we're trying to express, picks their meat up from . You call that to go?

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Very simple. Mmm, that's a good picture, uh, you know, you know, it brings up a good point because I was talking to, um, or actually, you know, because I was looking up and I was talking to my mom about this. Um, cause like how in American Samoa. You can't own land. The land is owned by clans and major families.

It's not owned by the U. S. government. Minus a couple of, uh, plots, you know, where the government buildings are at. Um, but it brings up a good point to the, because, you know, is, you know, for the, it's, it should be synonymous between both Samoans. Um, even though some villages and different clans have certain, you know, nuances that are a little bit more intricate, but the, the facade was a whole is usually, there's a general facade more and, but in American Samoa.

You know, if you want to have land, you usually have to be attached to one of these clans that own these, these areas. So the facade was nice when you're for the haves, but the have nots usually end up at the bottom of the totem pole and usually are having a harder time. A overstayers. A lot of people that come in from Western Samoa that have no blood ties to these lands and they stay, because they come to American Samoa on the hopes that they can, their kids can, you know, benefit from the American side because the infrastructure is a little bit more better, I guess, but.

You know, these overstayers are stuck trying to build a life on something that they, they, they don't have any ties to unless they marry into someone with family that has, you know, land. So a lot of them usually end up renting from different apartments or houses or different properties, and they pay all of this money's go to, these Mattis.

And their only viability is that they were born correctly in that area. So, I mean, it does tend to be a little difficult for the, and it does turn into, like, a caste system between the haves and the have nots, you know, pertaining to American Samoa. The same time, you know, there's, there's quite a few people that I know that came over from Western Samoa and, you know, they came over and they hustled and they worked their butt off and, um, and they made a life for themselves and now they're well off, you know, shout out to Uncle Menk.

 You know, it's the, the, the opportunity is still there, but you know, when it doesn't pan out,  you end up in that kind of situation where. You're just getting used, and that's, you know, I use that term loosely because, you know, in Michael's situation, it's one of those where his mom's family ties are in Western Samoa, and, you know, his dad is in American Samoa, and he's Chinese, so it's kind of like, it's a very, it's, it's hard to progress unless you go out and away.

Or you start a business and make money, so I mean, yeah, it can be that's that could be the ugly side and there are a few of those metis out there that are crooked. I mean, what place doesn't have them? You know, there is a lot of corruption. , I ain't gonna point no fingers, you know, allegedly there's quite a few corruption.

You could see it every day. You know, a lot of us are not stupid, especially when you've seen enough stuff in your life. So, I mean, it's there. I'm not going to pretend that it's not. Yeah, and that's another factor that contributed to us not practicing a lot of the Samoan traditions. It's because we had no roots in American Samoa.

If we had our own family Matai, that would be a different story. But our Matais are in... , you know, back in so that  is a one of the factors that made us to have knots and made us made it things difficult for us. We had to rely on the support of with the ties within the village. Even when when they asked, , after the incident, they asked us which one tire we under.

They couldn't do anything because the village,  the consequences can only be put on the Matai's within the village. You can't go punish the Matai's from other places. It's, there's no effect. But, my uh, that's. And Johnny, be careful how you use the word overstayer. Uh, that's, that's, you're gonna, yeah, permanent residence.

That's what I said. , permanent residence. Green call. No, I mean, cause you know, there are proper avenues. You know, just call it what it is. There's avenues, there are visas, there's proper ways of, and proper channels to go through. And there are people who decide or, for whatever reason, don't use those channels.

And so, I use the term loosely. And if I offend you, I apologize, but like I said, there are proper channels. To use he doesn't really and I know I know Mr. Chan is just fine. All right homeboys Mr. Chan, I like your lupias. Those things are amazing Miss that dude. He already went back. I'm like, ah, come back man Texas man, I your door 24 7

You don't have a picture of you no autism allowed At the front door. Oh man, I ain't gonna keep me away. Uh, no, I was, I was trying to say that, um, a father of love could be simple. If the matay, whoever that's running it, you know, it, it's a good matay, you know, 'cause yeah, there, there are other Matay out there that demand.

And that demand causes a lot of the issues that we have, you know, like, uh, my ties for a simple five lobbies, like small, uh, events and there's more ties out there that's demanding 500. Like, come on, dude. Like, you know, you're, you gotta understand your family. You gotta understand the poverty level within your own.

Like, if you're going to demand 500 and majority of your clan don't work good jobs and don't have good jobs, then why the hell are you demanding 500, 400, 300 like, you know, stuff like that. That's where a lot of the,  uh, you know, that devious, uh, not always say devious, but I want to say like it, a, uh, they feel white, you know, a lot of the families don't want to participate, you know, IE 10, you know, I don't really know the situation, but you know, there are a lot of families in American Samoa that they,  They go against a lot of the ties.

They don't want to participate in a lot of these family functions because Mattia is demanding X amount of money. And dude, like, how are we going to pay for for for the food for the next week, you know, and and how are we going to pay for, you know, if God forbids, your kids are going to a private school, you know, like, I know majority of, you know, kids down there are going to public schools, but, you know, for the families are To decide to not take their, you know, like the situation, you know, so,  when there's a demand from the Matai's, you know, the father is going to get, they didn't want to make it, you know, like a turning into a big event, but at the end of the day, and this is all the honest truth.

At the end of the day, that Matai is looking for something. And, uh, and what do you call when you're putting in for something that's called kusanga? And that's what, uh, time you were trying to, uh, you're alluding to, uh, so to speak, you know, when a matai is demanding a kusanga, you know, i. e. monetary, whatever, you know, that's where the issues arise.

And it's the honest truth. At the end of the day, wherever that matai is, that matai is trying to get something because the matai is, you know, they, they get lafos and lafos are, if they're, they're These are laffles from like wherever the family that's coming to bring the alofa or whatever. And they'd be like, Hey, yeah, and then he has like 500 in there.

And then he pockets that money. And then, you know, doesn't share it with the whole family. Cause the concept is if you get a, you know, a good Matai, you know, like a lot of my uncles that I know of when, when they get, uh, There are loafers, they go back and they have their talk and then they're, you know, he spreads it out to, you know, spread it back to the family, but I'm a tie that just gets his lawful.

I mean, of course that's for him, but a good matai will always, you know, take care of the family, you know, at the end there, because this is at the end of the day, this is a support system. This is where, you know, the help is coming from. , so, you know, it's, it could go both ways. But as far as like, you know, um, Uh, families are coming to American Samoa, you know, as a gateway to better opportunities, uh, you know, and, and, and people are taking advantage of them because of their status.

Uh, that's a no go in my book, you know, and it's sad if that's happening to a lot of our, you know, families in American Samoa and, you know, and vice versa with Western Samoa, but, you know, that's sad and, and. You know, there's got to be a, uh, another, another way to handle the situation. I mean, I don't, I don't have, you know, thoughts on it right now, but it's just, you know, sad to say, you know, whatever happened to, uh, your family.

Man, I apologize, but you know, it's just, it's sad all around just considering the whole situational thing. So. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, I like my mom's matai. Homeboy is flat rate. Regardless of what the father in law is, every family, 50 bucks. That's it. Flat rate. And then that's it. He shows up. These are the families under me, under my constituents.

And here's our offering. 250. That's it. And then it comes back to me, I go back to the families, Alright, here's your 50 bucks back, call it good. It's just flat rate, you know. But the love is still there, we still show up. And if it's your own stuff, you know, you handle the bulk of it. But it'll always be 50 bucks.

 So, I mean, that's, that's one way to do it, and, yeah, it just depends, and you're right, you brought up a good point, name, you know. Yeah. Cause, if, if you're one of those, those big, big, big clans, you're expected to show a good amount, you know, there's an expectation that comes with, oh, the name, so, you know, they try to put out, And yeah, there's a lot of tendencies for it to get real messy and you know, I've had like one of my uncle's really good.

He's a, he's a pastor. Um, and he said there are times where he just kind of sneaks into father. Love is the really important ones that he wants to be a part of. He'll sneak in there. Um, and try to stay in the back, try to stay hidden, because as soon as they find out he's a FIFO, they're like, Laffle, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you'll see him too, like, he'll be, I'll, I'll walk in, I'll be like, hey, hey, what's up, I'll go, they were just sitting by the door, and somebody would spot him.

And then they'll see it and then he'll kind of just put his head down and he's like, dang. And then somebody be like, funny thing is he can't deny it, you know? Yeah. And he can't deny it. Yeah. And they're like, Hey, come, come sit at the top, the head table. And then he sits up there and then he'll, and then he gets something back just because he's officially out.

But you know, for to him, he actually cared about that person. He wanted to show the funeral or show up to a wedding or whatever the sort. And by flexing that money, you know, you got a big smile. And speaking of big smiles, Ahti, you had something to mention. All right. Working on those smiles. All right, fellas.

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And so far on the scoreboard, we got Johnny and Ati, who would, uh, just keep it simple. Stay with, you know, tradition a little bit. Nothing too flashy. Let's, you know, let's just do what we're, it's meant to do. And then we got. Um, Michael Tan represent for China. He's not going to do, he ain't going to do anything.

He's not going to go along those lines so much. And then you got me , both my parents are from Western. My mom's from the same village as Tan's mom over there in Sava'i. And then my dad's from Upolu and they're, they're very. Knowledgeable on tradition, um, all the stuff they've handled without, you know, as much as letting myself and my brothers know what was going on, you know, they would bring us somewhere to handle business or they won't, you know, they leave us at home and they go and handle business, nothing too much.

And with that being said, they also came to a point where. They didn't exactly leave it behind, but they would put God first or the practices of the religion before the politics of the culture. You know what I'm saying? Because like Johnny said, which I love, you know, This stem from love, pretty much paraphrasing what he said, but these things came from love and any beautiful thing, you know, a person can twist, twist it to his own selfish desires and make it seem like something ugly and twist that perspective for others involved.

So, what have you said? Unless I died before my parents do, I don't. I don't think anyone would really arrange any type of father love and all this for, uh, myself and my passing because most of my parents siblings as well live in New Zealand or Australia or back in the motherland. And that's cool. You know, I just, I want to keep it simple.

I'm a very, I don't, Like being in front of people, same thing when, you know, when our brother Bobby died, uh, aside from not being able to make it to this funeral or just anybody who passes away close to us, you know, I just want to make it a connection to the ones left behind and, and establish, you know, we're, we're always there for you.

We're there for the little ones. Um, we'll handle things, you know, our way and our little circle. You know, whatever you need, I got you and, you know, and everything that ain't participate outside of that, you know, that's them, that's cool. Uh, I don't hate it. I don't bash it because I don't understand it. The only time I bash it is when I can see the corruption, like, you know, you guys pointed out because it takes a dirt bag and no one, you know, takes one, no one.

And I've been to dirt bag and I see it happening. That's when I start speaking up. I don't care about status or politics or anything. Uh. I will get up there and I'll let my voice be known. Can't nobody stop me other than that. Uh, what are, what are any additional thoughts you guys have on the matter?

Anything come up during the last couple of minutes that you guys thought? I would say this, you know, father lovey. The good thing, you know, about Father Love It is, you know, everything is good and everything is bad, but, uh, to me, the ultimately is the simple fact that a lot of the families that you don't get to see or who are, you know, somewhere else in the islands or somewhere else in the mainland or, you know, in New Zealand, Australia, wherever, when the Father Love It happens, a lot of those families are going to be down there, and That they're going to come support and you're going to see them.

You know, that's, that's one of the good things why I kind of like when fallout was happening is because, you know, my long lost cousin that I haven't seen when I was like four or five, now I get to see him, you know, at a fallout, you know, that, that's one of the good things. For me, uh, just like, uh, you know, democracy.

It's still, it's still being, uh, there's going to be a point where FOPLAVE is going. And I think there's a point now that it's happening where the truest form of FOPLAVE to me is like, for example, uh, I think recently there was a, I think it was in Seattle. It was on Facebook and you know, I kind of read it.

Uh, uh, there was a hospital that was going out and I don't know if you guys seen this, but there was a guy, a Samoan guy that was, uh, showed up to a hospital. I think it was delirious or I don't know what his situation was, but the hospital put out a new story saying that they don't know who this guy is.

And then, you know, that news received a lot of feedback from you. Everybody around like, you know, Samoans, you know, a lot of different on the comment section, like alofa, alofa, you know, that's the fall of love in itself. You know, we don't know who this guy is, but there was a lot of outpour of love and support and sharing of this post.

So hopefully wherever that guy is, you know, cause the, uh, the hospital didn't know who, who his family was or where he was from. So, you know, they, they got on, you know, which is the good thing about social media. And to me, that's in its truest form. That's the fall of loving, you know, that was somebody that, you know, uh, the hospital was trying to get ahold of the media family and, you know, outpouring of love came through the comment section.

I was reading through it. I'm like, wow, this is. It's nice. So to me, that's, that's a simple form of love. You know, that's, that's what is all about, you know, just, I mean, I'm, I'm putting, I'm not putting it down, but that to me, that's another form of love it to our, to our listeners, you know, that really wants to understand what it does.

Follow up. It only mean funeral and, and so far ease and, you know, all that stuff, you know, love it. Uh, if there's another term, uh, there's another meaning to f and, and I'll say it in a phrase, means, it also means you're bothering me. You know? So if something is bothering you, that's a F of a la you know, so if something is bothering, you know, help, help out whoever, uh, your friend is, whoever your family is, that they, they have a father love.

And it doesn't have to be any of the major foul numbers, you know, helping hand, you know, at the end of the day, uh, that's our world, our culture is, and that's what we are, where we, we love, and, uh, you know, it can go both ways, alofa pipilo or alofa mongi, or, you know, whatever it is, but at the end of the day, it's still love.

Thank you. And that's just my, uh, two cents on that. Alofa pipilo, kere monga oi. I know, right? And now, um...  Okay. So, uh, the reason why I was, I was, I brought this topic up was because of a post where I seen one of the guys, um, it was a podcast as well. And he was talking about how, , the father of love has become quite burdensome for now nowadays.

And I know one of the talking points was. That it's a lot of us don't have it. A lot of us are struggling to pay bills and then the comes up and then, you know, we just don't have it. And so it's, it's gotten to a point where we don't want to be involved. Don't want to be participant in it. Because it's, it's, you are not showing love if you don't give that monetary support and so, but had you the means, you know, say you were pretty well off, you know, had a really stable and had a lot of liquid income and you were asked, would you still participate in the photo of loving?

Or would you give more or less, you know, as, as a stance, whether, um, does it, it does the father of a lover being, uh, immediate family versus relative with that dictate how much you give or not give, you know, what do you guys think? All I know is. My money is going to family, those who I know, those who have made an impact in my life.

And that, it's, it's a small portion, it's a small circle, so it's not going out to a lot of people, so, yeah. Those who are fortunate enough to be in my circle of family and friends will get... Does that mean, does that mean me too? Me too? Oh yo, yes. Johnny, Johnny. My man. Johnny, you called, called me a overstayer.

First off, I said overstayers in general. Not specific. Not specific. I didn't say Michael Tan, the overstayer general of all of overstayers out there. Yeah, you're on my list, Johnny. Don't worry. Yes. Am I just want to apologize to the viewers for laughing while Johnny was talking, but it was because he was using his Drake voice.

Uh, the reason why. Oh, okay. Okay. So I'm going to tell you this right now. I'm sick. All right. My throat hurts. That's why I sound like this. Yeah. We've been out in the sun for two weekends in a row now. I've been out in the sun for two weekends. I've been eating high C capsules for the last two days because I had to work today and when I woke up this morning and I couldn't swallow, my throat was hurting, drank NyQuil, man, just pounding water.

I'm trying to get over this because being sick and working is just the worst. Drag? Yeah. It's the worst. It sounds very... Make a good, uh, radio host voice. Oh, yeah. Baritone. More often. Man. If I was a billionaire, though, you know, the first of my billionaire. So, uh, it's a business at the end of the day, you want some money.

Yeah, I go two percent, you know, every month and how much you want 20, 000 too easy. Let's go. Yeah. You know, too easy, too easy. Okay. So let's say, let's say it's, uh, uh, the Matai that's not, you know, far relation, right? Let's say there's two or three generations that separate you from this Matai and it's his daughter's wedding.

And the Kusama comes out to the village, everybody donates said amount, would you? Hell nah, I mean, no. Even if you got it, like say, you're, you're pretty thick in the pockets, still no? No, however though, like I said, business, that's a business transaction now. Uh, but, I mean, out of the love of the heart, no.

I'm not going to do that. And the reason why is because that's your, it should be, you're, you're the man, you're the, you're the man that's, that's your daughter, you know, don't have another man pay for your, your daughter's wedding. Come on, you know? Okay. Let's say it's, uh, um, your. Grandma's sister passes away.

That's my grandma's sister. And, and you're, she help, let's say you, you've seen this lady like twice your whole life. It's your grandma's sister, but your grandma's sister lives in LA and they brought her back down to Samo to bury her at home. Mm. Those two times that I saw her, she gave me a kiss, gave me a bubblegum.

Heck, yeah. Very impactful in your life, you know? Fuck. Yeah. Now, would you give more or less or exactly what they asked? Uh,

 If you're asking, I'll, I'll take care of it, but then I'll go around and, you know, take care of other things at the end. You know, like you, you ask the money, I'll take care of the money up front. And then of course, um, I always, my mom always say this, I fight. I, you know, mm-hmm. , use your brain. You know, of course you won't take care of what they want, but then I'll find other ways to take care of everything else on the sidelines.

Without them knowing, you know, like, uh, you know, I'm, I have means and, uh, and, you know, if I'm the billionaire, thank you. I'll take care of all the other new stuff that they don't, you know, just to take care of, you know, like the, that like, you know, uh, any other billionaire out there. Well, actually, I don't really know any other billionaires aside from, I don't think I know like two of them, let alone one.

Do we have a Samoan billionaire? I don't. Thanks. No, no, no. Yeah, you don't rock the rock, man. The rock might. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know. We made millions of dollars. I was practicing. I was practicing. I would just do the minimum man. Just be the minimum and hope that they, you get them off your back. Okay. What about you now?

Now? Okay. So it depends on the matai. If it was a matai that my dad respected, right? Say, because, you know, my dad comes from, um, C. D. Osema. And, you know, there's a lot of Matai's in C. D. Osema. And so, say it was a Matai that my dad respected and something happened. Because, the funny thing is, is the, the running joke right now is that if you're from Manoa, we're all related.

All related. Whether you're from Ka'u or Ofu, um, we're all related. And so, um, yeah, that's why Fatu. It's my cousin. Um, but, you know, there's, there's, there's quite a few Matai'i in Manua. And if it was somebody that my dad looked highly to, worked well with, then I can confirm it. Yeah. If I have it, you ask.

Because you asking me is the same as you asking my father. My father would be in my shoes. And I would, yeah, sure, gotcha. Um, if it was somebody I knew personally, a Makai that I dealt with personally, um, then I would probably give a little more, uh, because I am a representation of my father. Regardless of my own deeds, it will always be to reflect him.

When it comes to Fa'asamoa, I do so in the name of him. I carry his name. Um, but, uh, if it was like. Uh, someone that as long as someone in my immediate family, my mom or my siblings can, can establish a relationship with that person. I'm all for it. Anyone outside of them are like, like say if it was someone like, what are you guys?

Right. Uh, I can see you guys, my real good friends. And if somebody in your family that was meant a lot to you guys. I would, you don't even have to ask, you know, because I, through you, I will support them just the same thing as if, if it was someone, someone that, um, there was a father love in my brother's family, um, or my mom or my other brothers or my sister, anything involved with them, no questions asked.

Um, because I know if my dad were here, it would be what he would do, you know, it's, it's, it's my form of respect and it always, it will always come back to him, you know. What would he do? Had it been me? And my dad was a man that, um, it was an eye opener for me because at his funeral, that was the one thing everyone said.

My dad's been doing this since he was in his early 20s, you know. I think he, at 24, he did, he ran, uh, he got him a tie. He was a, he was a Matai real young and he was doing whole funerals at 24, 25 years old, you know, and for him, it was that and everyone kept saying the same thing, you know, this young man told to a told to a told to a call on like, oh, cool.

I ain't not cool. Cool. Cool. You know, he does his service to family, to, to, to the village, to. To the the, to the fo as a whole. That was his thing. And you know, for me, I didn't see it a lot or I didn't really understand it back then. 'cause I was little, I mean, I was always running around as a kid. My dad would go to these lovers and I would follow him around and, and do all these things.

Just do what I was told as a kid. And it was just the, the thing, uh, you know, as I'm older and I look back on it and I realize like this was, it was all about, and I used to laugh. My mom and them used to, um, My dad would call it his Ong Apisi. Him and his old buddies say they'd have song practice, and they'd meet up at McDonald's and just gossip.

And these are like everybody in Samoa with positions. You know, either heads of state of this side, or directors of this, whatever. And they just... They're friends from high school and childhood friends, and they were just bullcrap. They'd meet up at McDonald's for breakfast and just bullcrap and then they'd go about their day and that, but to him It was like he was always in the know trying to, you know, where can I help out?

So if I had it, if I had the means And I can create a link or somebody in my circle can verify it. Just tell me where to write the check. I'll send it. How about you, T?

How about me what? Are we going to skip you? Are we going to skip you? Nah, T's like

I didn't make a billion dollars by giving it away. Right? Yeah, I mean, as long as the conditions were right in. The person was respectful and by all means support the community, support those in need. But if it's, if I can tell that the, it's just a money grab and not really going to benefiting anyone except the person asking for the money, then it's a, it's a straight up no.

What about your friends? Oh, yeah. All day for the friends. Oh, man. T make a billion dollars like, Hey, T, I got a five loving going on. Me and uh, you're supposed to meet up at the sprinkle. We're playing at the, we're playing at that, that one course where it's like two 50 green fee. So

who are you playing with? Homie? But anyways, any last rounds from anyone?

Oh, I got one.  When it comes to father of loving. Whether you're for or against, just understand that it's, there's the spirit. The spirit is always the good touchy feely. It's about love. And then there's the reality. And the reality is that something made out of love, and you said it earlier, T, can be taken advantage of.

And there are people out there that will. So, whether it's for or against, um, fatwa of love is from, it's from a good place. It comes from a good place. And it is our culture. And the fa'asamo is not going anywhere.

That is a mic drop moment. Could you say that again after what I'm about to say? I don't, I don't remember what I just said. Oh, it comes straight from the belly of the mouth. You know, I thought I was going to be there. Yeah. So my last round is is universal, but it is very out there in our community. Stop putting politics and statuses over.

Humanity over the people, stop letting that drive greed and, and making you take physical force and, and being such greedy people and doing the wrong things.

Cause, and. If you're witnessing this happen within your village amongst your people, and you know, it's not right, come together and stand up, stand up. I mean, if I was there with you, Mr. Fiapalangi, not knowing what the hell is going on. If I saw corruption, if I saw wrongdoing being done, I wouldn't care.

I'd stand up. What the hell does that status mean to me? I don't give two dams. What I'm seeing is injustice and wrongdoing and bullying straight up for stupid reasons. That we're going to put humanity on the back burner and our own freaking, our own freaking worry about whatever status you got going on overlooking, you know, the people will make your village a village, the freaking people.

Uh, with that being said, hit up Ahti Mingi for your file. Lovey lovey loan needs. He's our number one loan shark. I mean, officer in those cases, just kidding. Hey, thanks again for joining on this episode. Of Behind the Lava Lava, like, comment, subscribe, share. We're on all streaming platforms. Apple, Spotify, YouTube.

If we haven't heard of it yet, Michael Tan is probably already on it. And we'll be streaming on that soon enough. I also leave us a review. Anything you want us to talk about or any comments you have, go ahead and share. We're Thick Skin. We'll laugh. We'll agree. We'll cry and all that.  Hey, thanks for joining us once again.

It's Behind the Lava Lava.